Built to blow at 14000 miles howd they do that?

[sousame]

Ill start with a lil background....
I own a 1999 camry ce (4cyl) threw a rod through the block and took out my ac compressor at the same time. "nice shot" I took it to a shop that rebuilds engines "the engine warehouse" Wich is now out of buisiness actually they were gone less then a month after they finished my car.
Now 14,000 miles down the line my car starts missing really badly out of the blue under normal driving conditions did not over heat at all just BAM all of a sudden no warning signs AT ALL.... i pulled the #3 sparkplug boot while its running and i get sparks and no difference in how the engine is running.... I rule out anything to do with compression beeing this is stil a fresh engine, so i pull the injectors send them off to get cleaned and new o-rings and what not. When i get them back i notice that the flow tests they do before the ultasonic cleaning did not indicate a cloged injector....sooo i just looked away and went ahead putting my injectors back in.... fire it up and sure as Shi! missing just like before... so I pulled the number 3 plug and it has moisture on it..... ..... OMFG.
Then i pulled the number 4 plug same thing,,, then i pulled the number 2 plug it was ok and so was number 1.......... I purchased some kw block sealant in a last ditch effort, and i couldnt even get the engine warm before water started to get into the number 1 and 2 cylinders so that i could flush the antifreze out to even use the stuff....so I took that bottle back.

It avalanched rapidly i had all the plugs out and i turned the engine over and it reminded me of that water fountain show in vegas at the Belagio,seriously.


Ok reason for my post here...
Q. What could the shop have done wrong that would make this engine blow at this young age....
Keep in mind did not over heat at all and i have ran fully synthetic oil since i first changed it at 500 miles. and it has had platinum plugs in it sice it left the shop.

Q.How likely is it that my block is damaged from what i have explained above..? Most likely just the head gasket? but then back to the first question why?

[carsrus]

Rebuilds are always a crapshoot. Properly done they can be good but improperly done they blow up like this.

Change the headgasket and get the head checked out. It could just need that. Block could be cracked by I doubt it if your getting water into more then one cylinder.

You could have some oil related damage since you probably have large amounts of coolant in your oil.

[chronoti]

^ yup prolly didn't tq down the head bolt tight enough so it blew the head gasket

[73sport]

Suck!
Musta seen ya commin. . . .

You up for doing some work? People more than willing to help here if you got the time, tools and a place for such things.

Take gander through here and see if its reads well enough to give it a shot. http://camrystuff.com/index.php?page=Gen3_Manuals

5S-FE Engine (I4) (18.00MB)

[sousame]

Originally Posted by carsrus

Rebuilds are always a crapshoot. Properly done they can be good but improperly done they blow up like this.

Change the headgasket and get the head checked out. It could just need that. Block could be cracked by I doubt it if your getting water into more then one cylinder.

You could have some oil related damage since you probably have large amounts of coolant in your oil.

Diped in and got a head gasket set its made by fel pro..... seems like a trusted brand from what i have been reasearching.... only got one joke about the brand,,,,, someone called it "fail pro".. ha ha hmmm.... scored some new head bolts polished up my torque wrench.... wish me luck... hope your right guessing my block is not cracked.....
also what type of of oil related damage were you thinking? it turns over no problem and i was thinkng of running some sea foam through it as soon as i put it back together.... anything else i should do? thanks!

[chronoti]

check the water pump,timing belt, seals if they did a bad job with the head gasket they might of no change out the other stuff

[73sport]

Originally Posted by chronoti

^ yup prolly didn't tq down the head bolt tight enough so it blew the head gasket

As many people that have secondary blown head gaskets after major repairs, I wonder how many could have been avoided by using new bolts?

I'm thinking that and the combination of block prep is what's killing these things. Clean the threads and remove everything from those bolt holes!!!!!!!

Oil them lightly and CONFIRM that every bolt will thread to depth by finger into the block. If this ISN'T happening, you get a bad torque reading and failure is the result.

Also, be sure to grease the head bolt flange and cup where the bolts seats in the head.

Good Luck!

[sousame]

Thats a great idea making sure the bolts thread to depth before i put the head on.... i was just going to put the sucker on just now thought id check this forum before i did.. glad i did! Thanks!

[93celicaconv]

All of the inputs in this thread are great things to consider and do regarding an engine rebuild and headgasket replacement. No doubt, with the cracked block you had from the thrown rod, the shop either put in a complete different engine, or put the block of a different engine in and reused your head. Not sure.

No mention of any machine work done on the head (if I read the posts right). Usually the head is measured for flatness, and not too often does it pass, so some light machine work is needed to make the mating surface to the block completely flat. If not flat, this stress, along with reusing old head bolts that are already stretched, and possibly headbolt threaded holes in the block that are not absolutely clean to prevent proper head bolt torquing, all work together against the headgasket making it very long.

[Jason.MZW20]

1997+ or 1998+ 5SFEs use MLS gaskets, right? MLS gaskets are pretty picky about mating surface, but if you get that right, they won't fail you and generally last longer than other gasket types.

Since the head bolts are TTY (torque-to-yield) bolts and see a TON of stress, I would never reuse head bolts under any circumstances. They can provide a lot of clamping force, so they absolutely need to be torqued in multiple steps and in an alternating, diagonal pattern (Toyota has the pattern listed in the FSM). Torquing them to spec unevenly will result in a seal that has more force on one end than the other, which is prone to failure and can cause warpage.

If a shop only torques them to the specified ft-lbs, the seal will also fail because they require an additional 90* turn to stretch the bolt and really clamp down.

I did my 1MZ rebuild according to Toyota's specifications and I haven't had a problem with the head gaskets.

[93celicaconv]

There is a different gasket (dimensionally) between 5S-FE's from the 1987-1997 group (probably includes 3S-FE's in this group too) and the group from 1998-2001. But the difference is dimensionally only.

Fel-Pro's gaskets for these two groups are not MLS (multiple layer steel). They are the basic perma-torque.

And you are right about the last phase of head bolt tightening on 5S-FE engines; after reaching the spec 36 ft-lbs torque on all, the last phase is to tighten an additional 90 deg turn. Same process for the 3S-GTE engines. But not the 4A-FE engines. These engines are tightened to 44 ft-lbs, no added 90 deg turn at the end.

[sousame]

Alrighty got my head pulled and i got some pics.... as im methodically taking out the head bolts i notice some loctite on the threads
heres a link to an album with a few pics...

http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/sousame/

so from what you can see from the pics how bad is the damage.. ill get back to you on the warpage as soon as i clean this thing up and aquire whats needed to check it.

looks like to me this might be the wrong gasket due to the coolant passages being obstructed.... ? whatcha think?

honestly im kinda at a loss as to what to do at this point with the rust in the cylinders and the head...im getting down there on the funds.... anyone got some advice? i already purchased the head gasket kit from fel pro and new head bolts....

[Jason.MZW20]

Head gaskets are supposed to block off most of the coolant ports. You don't want too much cooling.

Here's my 1MZ MLS head gasket:

Now, I'm not sure what to think about that block. The bores could be distorted from the rebuild/improper assembly. It's hard to tell with all of the gasket material.

Most of that rust is just surface rust, though, so don't worry about that too much. What you need to watch out for is deep vertical scratching in the cylinder walls. That lowers cylinder compression quite a bit.

[73sport]

Originally Posted by sousame

Alrighty got my head pulled and i got some pics.... as im methodically taking out the head bolts i notice some loctite on the threads
heres a link to an album with a few pics...

http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/sousame/

so from what you can see from the pics how bad is the damage.. ill get back to you on the warpage as soon as i clean this thing up and aquire whats needed to check it.

looks like to me this might be the wrong gasket due to the coolant passages being obstructed.... ? whatcha think?

honestly im kinda at a loss as to what to do at this point with the rust in the cylinders and the head...im getting down there on the funds.... anyone got some advice? i already purchased the head gasket kit from fel pro and new head bolts....

That is some nasty looking fluid in there!!!
Like Jason said, just surface rust. As for the head, take some ATF and wipe it about. Most of the surface stuff will come right off. Getting the rest clean is the chore.

But it sounds like your about to put it together? Y/N?

[sousame]

Yes I am. Thanks for the ATF tip! I needed that. To my surprise no local auto parts store had and gasket remover..... bunk.