considering purchase of '00 Solara SLE V6 1mz-fe @ 105k miles (PIX)

[fenixus]

hey guys

found some nice (i hope) car in some dealer parking lot.

car is: 2000 Camry Solara SLE V6 3.0L (1mz-fe) @ 105k miles, no accidents on carfax (clean title), 3 owners.

tag price at dealer: ~$5.9k which seems close to private party value (good condition) ... but!

I took a look at car and it was almost right out of car wash (including engine bay).

Since I arrived at that dealer late shortly after 8pm after work (after i found online advertising with no pics yet) late after work, so i had barely 20 minutes before they closed up.

So, I took some pics of body and engine bay (general) that you can see below.

Engine bay:


Grille:


Front open hood:


Front closed hood:


Driver side scratches:


Rear:


Rear left:


Rear right:


Interior glimpse:


Instrument cluster (CEL & TRAC OFF lights on at idle)


Front driver wheel:


Front passenger wheel:


Didn't have time to look closely at interior or rear wheels, trunk, etc. can do that next time (if worth it).

Also, recorded short video of how engine sounds. I can hear some slight valve train noise, but at 105k miles I would assume it's kind of normal, isn't it ?
Note that my video was done using digital camera with mono microphone (suppressing high pitched noises, making bass noises sound louder).
Generally engine runs smooth and quiet (sounds much louder in the video).

You Tube

You Tube

And scanned obd2

live feed at warm idle:


another live feed at warm idle:


trouble codes present:


P0441 - Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Control System Incorrect Purge Flow
P0446 - Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Control System Vent Control Circuit Malfunction (also as pending)

ECU internal testing results, seems cat converter is OK (per EVAP error codes):


Car has some unfixed problems which i pointed out to dealer (CEL on, TRAC OFF - pressing TRAC button doesn't turn it back on, so it's another problem).

When inspecting engine bay i noticed following problems:
-both valve cover gaskets have leaks
-some residual oil was on exhaust pipe below manifold and at first caused smoking effect, but it disappeared after 5 mins, probably result of cleaning of engine bay at car wash or oil leak from valve cover above or a spill residue from around oil filter area.
-a/c compressor made unpleasant high pitched squeal at first right after cold start then it changed into something like slight humming noise - possible problem with its bearing ?
-all fluid levels looked good, especially paid attention to coolant. still need to take another look to check others (oil, tranny, brakes).

Seems that prev owner (3rd was last one) did 50k miles in 3 years and didn't do any tune up and neglected scheduled timing belt/water pump job (which i pointed out).

I gave the dealer my best offer after my preliminary inspection (all fluid levels looked good, no stains under car), saying tops $4,500 as is maybe lower after I take a test drive on Thursday (again after work). should i fight for this price (or lower?) or can i accept any higher than that ? help me decide

what do you think, is it worth it at any price ?
should I bother with it ?
how hard to fix trouble codes present ?
any particular worries about engine maybe ? things i missed ?
also car is due for state inspection September 2010 and considering it has faulty EVAP it won't pass until those things got fixed.

HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY FOR IT ?

Kelly Blue Book values:
trade-in (Good condition, doesn't deserve excellent):
a) Excellent $4,275
b) Good $3,875
c) Fair $3,225
Suggested retail value: $7,510
Private party value:
a) Excellent $5,835
b) Good $5,360
c) Fair $4,610
http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/toyota/...mileage=106000

Car has 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS and traction control (which is bad, TRAC OFF light on).

I want to get rid off my old buick (will sell it to some local person needing a local driver badly) and planning to get this solara (no financing) instead.

THANK YOU for your opinions guys.

[peshwa]

You rock Fenixus....I am pretty sure you must've scared the HELL out of the dealer.If you keep pointing out the car issues to him like this he will give you the car one day ...for FREE.. ha ha ha....
IMHO KBB is always overpriced..I usually check www.edmunds.com apprise your car option. Its much more realistically priced.
The dealers in CA are $tealer$ and I guess in NJ area too nothing different ;-) They have a markup of at least 2K in your dealer's case.
Has the timing belt+water pump service been done on this one? At 100K I guess it would be due??That adds another $350 if you DIY with OEM parts.
Does the vehicle history check out fine?
The rotors seem rusted, does the engine bay show any signs of waterlogging or flooding? Make sure its not a "washed" title...
If you wanted to buy your price of 4.5K is a good offer. See if you can get him to 3.5K..that would be a great deal...
All the best!!!

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by peshwa

You rock Fenixus....I am pretty sure you must've scared the HELL out of the dealer.If you keep pointing out the car issues to him like this he will give you the car one day ...for FREE.. ha ha ha....
IMHO KBB is always overpriced..I usually check www.edmunds.com apprise your car option. Its much more realistically priced.
The dealers in CA are $tealer$ and I guess in NJ area too nothing different ;-) They have a markup of at least 2K in your dealer's case.
Has the timing belt+water pump service been done on this one? At 100K I guess it would be due??That adds another $350 if you DIY with OEM parts.
Does the vehicle history check out fine?
The rotors seem rusted, does the engine bay show any signs of waterlogging or flooding? Make sure its not a "washed" title...
If you wanted to buy your price of 4.5K is a good offer. See if you can get him to 3.5K..that would be a great deal...
All the best!!!

haha, good point i really think the guy got scared when i pulled my camera and huge backpack (with laptop and obd2 cable inside, plus some paperwork) ... wondering if they allow this car to go at that price ... i'm counting on a fact that a non-toyota dealer will really want to get rid of toyota car off his parking lot right before new 2011 line of their breed comes in a few weeks fresh from factories

there is no record of dealer maintenance on car for past 3 years, so i believe t-belt an wp were not touched, also all things look OEM, so i guess no tune up was done either and no valve clearance check

only worry would go towards the transmission, because such scenario may mean that fluid in tranny and differential was never drained and refilled either. need to check color and smell. and hell, i need a test drive!

carfax report (was free paid by dealer) looks good, but i also plan on buying the autocheck report myself and double checking it.

thanks for the reminder about edmunds, i keep forgetting it. it seems there is another '00 solara SLE v6 with even lower mileage (96k) nearby and price is same, might be a good argument for lowering the price (or going elsewhere)

[Vooduguru]

Run your fingers along all the edges of the doors, hood, trunk. Feel for rough paint edges. This would indicate if a panel has been painted. Check all the vin stickers on the door jambs, and hood/trunk.

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by Vooduguru

Run your fingers along all the edges of the doors, hood, trunk. Feel for rough paint edges. This would indicate if a panel has been painted. Check all the vin stickers on the door jambs, and hood/trunk.

thanks, good idea, will do next time!

[peshwa]

BTW I was wondering why a local check on your craigslist didnt turn up private party sellers? If you are such a discerning buyer (who goes to length of squeezing out live ECU feeds) you can easily get a similar car with minor mechanical imperfections and CEL etc things for around 3.5-4K easily... Even a salvage title car from a private seller thats been well cared for will be worth paying extra 500 dollars....just thinking aloud

[fenixus]

nah, i'm done with salvage title (my solara se is post-salvage car). i have a few other options (edmunds) like 2 other '00 solara sle v6 with similar mileage

[Chris Crash]

I would pay like $3000 for it max UNLESS they fix allllll those problems.

But I doubt they will.

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by Chris Crash

I would pay like $3000 for it max UNLESS they fix allllll those problems.

But I doubt they will.

well, i honestly think that prices for trade in around my area are like thousand more than what you posted, so i doubt they will sell bellow the KBB trade in value (unless there is something really wrong with the car and they know about it!) ...

if they don't fix anything than I think i can try fighting for $3,500-4,000 as i'm sure i can find some more anal things i can point out (e.g. valve clearance check and adjustment hehe, still need to test the tranny and crucial check fluids, i can complain about poor maintenance lowering value, etc.). who knows maybe brakes are working weak too (driver side front rotor rusted) ?

[73sport]

Car buyer tips:
Look at ALL the panel stickers. A car that hasn't ben wrecked will still have all the mtaching stickers on every panel. Doors, Hood, Trunk, fenders ect. Same is true of the window glass markings.
Look at the pinch weld under the car where the jack raises the car. Look for diagonal marks anywhere along those two seams on each side of the car fron to back, meaning its had clamps on it to fix body damage. You should find no marks and no touch up paint.

Listen to the door and close them REAL SLOW with your face at eye level to the glass. The door shoudl go straight in and not raise or lower as it latches on the striker. Repeat over and over and listen.

Pull up anything loose to check for water penatration. Look in the spare tire holder and under the plastic tubs. Make sure you're not buying a future aquarium. Be sure to water it once to. Anal - but if you pay top dollar for an AS-IS car, you'll learn something by watering it. Wax = Y/N, Leaks = Y/N ect. . .

Get it under some flourescent lights and direct sun light. Look for any variations in tint, color hue of paint from panel to panel. Check gaps at all seams (should be even), look at door hinge bolts for being moved as well as striker plates being moved. Look at the plastic, all lights should have the same release date (dot #). Look at the tow hooks; broken paint, rust ect. Gives a time line of issues.

Look at struts for oil, give it the bouce test on each corner ect.

Engine: Most important, start the engine and let it warm slightly. With a rag handy remove the oil fill cap and place your palm over the fill hole (or have a helper start the car with your hand on it = less mess). You should feel a vacuum. If it tries to blow your hand off the rings are shot and you should run!
Look over every mating seem of block to head, pan to block, differential to trans. . . All the sealents should be uniform and the same color, over hang ect. Warm the engine and pull the dipstick and smell the tranny fluid. BURNED = BAD! Drive it, feel the shifts. Should be firm but not harsh, smooth but no engine flair. Try light load shifts, med throttle, and WOT.

Aside from Walmart OBDII scanning as you did already, this stuff gives you ammunition to bid with.

I can't say what its worth to you and your $situation$ The fact that it comes with the EGR "fail" option is right up your alley and you should buy just to solve that mystery! LOL!!!!

Hope this helps. . .
/73

[fenixus]

thanks 73sport. as i mentioned i had only 20 minutes to do what i did, need to go back on Thursday a little earlier, so i have time for a test drive (most important). i can hear/feel most of problems during driving.

also planned to see if struts are good (bouncing test), at 100k miles if they were never changed all are gone. will see.

thanks for tips on checking for frame damage and body work. so far all looked good, but next time i need to check closely fluids for color and smell.
if maintenance was neglected then engine might be sludged or tranny maybe on its way out, will see.

big thanks on checking for oil cap vacuum/pressure!! that's a great idea to see if rings are good!

carfax shows NO ACCIDENTS, so i will double check visually what i can, but honestly body looks good (for NJ/NY conditions)... i think i will try beating the price lower due to a noisy a/c compressor and possible negligence in maintenance items (engine, tranny, power steering, cooling maybe). also suspension is a mystery for now as well as brakes. Need a test drive!

also P0441 and P0446 are both EVAP related point to a control circuit malfunction, so something must be replaced (VSV for Vapor ?) ... need to browse gen4 diagnostics manual for possible trouble area and solutions, then run a price check on parts.

have you seen live feed from obd2 at warm idle (second one). does it look good ? fuel trims are close to zero (+/-3%), running a little on rich side (maybe engine wasn't fully warmed up, only coolant was over 185F), anyways car properly entered into a closed fuel loop and was idling smooth.

[carsrus]

I wouldn't pay more then 5 stacks out the door.

Its 11 years old, remember that and remind the sales guy that repeatedly.

The scratches and lil dings isnt such a bad thing, reinforces the fact the cars probably accident free.

KBB prices are whacked out, the dealer would give maybe 3k trade in for that car in that shape.

[fenixus]

thanks carsrus. will remember about those too and keep repeating and complaining (have come up with a long list for bitching hehe) to beat down the price. will try aiming it into $3,500-4,000 max after test drive, unless they fixed some problems (doubt it).

[fenixus]

so far i have come up with following list of areas i can complain on:

-valve cover gaskets on both engine banks are leaking oil
-check engine light on, trouble codes (P0441, P0446) – EVAP system failure (emissions problem), some parts need to be replaced
-traction system failure (TRAC OFF)
-a/c compressor possibly going bad (bearing noise?, whining noise at cold then humming at warm)
-state inspection due soon (Sep '10), problem – possibly fail due to EVAP errors
-missing engine maintenance (every 90k miles timing belt and water pump job with new seals & gaskets)
-missing valve clearance check and adjustment (every 60k miles) – valve train chatter audible
-missing 15k/30k transmission & 30k/60k differential maintenance (requires at least drain & refill)
-all brake rotors are grooved & rusty, need replacement
-both accessory belts are worn out, need replacement
-missing 30k miles tune up (spark plugs, wires, air and fuel filter, PCV valve and grommet)
-rust and chipped paint on hood
-grille needs to be replaced
-scratches on doors & rear quarter panels

I think if dealer is willing to let it go I could make it happen at $4k

[carsrus]

I wouldent just list it out like that. Theyll just laugh at you and let you walk off.

Some idiot will buy it at a reasonable price to them and just overlook all the maintenance stuff. Ive seen it happen over and over, especially since its a nice looking loaded out car.