Overheated & Tickin'

[oscaryu1]

Ohaithair guys, mom was driving the 01' Camry the other day when it stalled at a light... she restarted it, drove it some more... stalled it again. Restarted it and decided to give up going to her destination and drove home (and somehow it made it?!)

Go home, open up the radiator, not a DROP of coolant in sight (overflow also empty). Fill it up, and noticed a leak at the bottom of the radiator (small, but when started and begins to pressurize, is pronounced)

Well, at the time I didn't know it was leaking that severely when its started, filled it up with water/coolant and gave it back to her and told her to check it every once in a while...

Next day (today), she's driving it again and it conks out... continues driving it until it stalls and won't fire at all.

Guess what? Turns out she didn't know what the temperature gauge DID and didn't even know it existed at the time

Take it home, bone dry radiator. This time, there's definitely some damage:

LOW rumbly idle (the very left cylinder and very right has lower compression than the two in the middle)

A rather pronounced ticking that goes along with acceleration and the idle.


Still runs even though the temperature gauge (no doubt) was pointing towards the sky...

Any tips? Gonna go pick up a replacement radiator tomorrow with my dad (I'm only 15 )

[oscaryu1]

Oh, forgot to mention. To give you an idea of how hot it got...

The SuperTech [walmart] filter that it had on there... the sticker itself actually melted into a little burnt-up piece o' plastic. Shrunk and everything, it got HOT (said the engine was smoking from under teh hood).


I'm assuming it got so hot the oil thinned out, and caused scoring on the two cylinders o.o

[oldfirebird]

Ya might want to price a used motor before you drop the coin on a radiator.
The rough idle and low compression makes me think you'll need a head gasket, the overheating probably warped and maybe cracked the head.
The ticking might be an exhaust leak between the head and manifold. Get a length of garden hose about two or three feet long (heater hose will work too) Start the car up, hold one end of said hose to your ear and move the other end around the engine. You'll hear the tick clear as day when you're on top of it.
While it's running, look to see if steam is coming from the tailpipe.

[LittleWhiteBubble]

^ x2. Sounds like head gasket to me. What does the oil look like? If it looks like chocolate milk then price a used motor.

[73sport]

That don't sound good. I4 or 6?
Me, I'd remove the oil filter and cut it open with a hacksaw right at the mounting area. Tell us what you see.

Any and all of the above could be true. Worst case is rings collapse from heat, scored cylinders, and crakced upper end. Head(s) ect. . . You have actual compression numbers?

Not sure what platic thing you refer to. pulling the spark plugs and looking at them very close may show metal tranfer if the pistons & rings tried to seize in the bore.

Drain the oil and smell. Does it smell burned up? I'm thinking I'd have a hard time trusting it going forward.

[LittleWhiteBubble]

I agree with checking the plugs too. If its a head gasket, the common symptoms are milky oil from coolant seepage (check dip stick and cap), loss of coolant or chocolate milk looking coolant in radiator from oil crossover, smoke from tail pipe, rough idle, and overheating. If it's the cylinder walls/rings the plugs and compression results are the best tell tales like 73sport said. But if it's either one of those you're probably looking at motor replacement, as it's probably cheaper than repairing. I can't imagine its anything else other than those two problems.

[oscaryu1]

Doubt it has a blown head gaskets, valve seals are fine, no smoking, oil looks fine (not milky, water-y, or excessively drippy).

The ticking seems to be coming from under the valve cover, IIRC. Not so much a rod knock, just a rather loud ticking that goes along with acceleration.

It's the 5SFE 2.2.

[oscaryu1]

OBTW, engine has 155,000 miles on it, and it DOES have blow-by according to my hand over the oil filler area, lol.

No compression gauge, so I can't test that yet.

[73sport]

Originally Posted by oscaryu1

OBTW, engine has 155,000 miles on it, and it DOES have blow-by according to my hand over the oil filler area, lol.

No compression gauge, so I can't test that yet.

Assuming the PCV system is not plugged and it pulls a vaccum on the crank case, postive pressure out the hole is not a good thing. Are we to picture a whales "blow hole?"

Although it sounds as if it could have been this way all along? IDK

Just becuase there's no water in the oil/oil in the water doesn't mean much at this point as the cooling system has none to tranfer if I'm not mistaken. The cooling system has a leak so it will neither pressurize fully or pull a vacuum and operate properly so this can't be used as a tool to diagnose as its last continuous run was to RUN OUT of WATER!

If the tick is not a rod, wrist-pin, piston, slap noise and it didn't have great power/compression before it may be no different than it was.

Fix the leak, change out all the fluids and see what comes of it.

[oscaryu1]

That's the problem, the leak is at the BOTTOM of the radiator right next the lower hose, so any pressure at all would have more than likely just pushed all the water/coolant straight out.

It definitely is different, noticeably lower and MUCH rougher idle (kinda "coughing" at the exhaust, you can hear it :\)

[LittleWhiteBubble]

If its chugging at the exhaust you've probably dropped a cylinder. Did you check the spark plugs? You could try a used radiator from the junkyard just to keep cost down while diagnosing everything. As a very very temporary fix you could jb weld the radiator if its a small crack or hole. But it will bust again in time so I'd only do it to find the problem then replace it.

[oscaryu1]

All cylinders are there, but from left to right, the 1 & 4 cylinders can be removed (so running on 3 cyls), and they MAKE a difference, noticeable and all, but not a very big difference (under acceleration, the dropped cylinder on 1 & 4 are VERY noticeable in roughness)

However, on the 2 & 3 middle cylinders, taking either one of them out would make the engine stall out right.

That leads me to believe 1 & 4 are still FIRING, but have low compression (and 2 & 3 have GOOD compression, stalling it when you unplug the wire).

[carsrus]

Originally Posted by oscaryu1

That leads me to believe 1 & 4 are still FIRING, but have low compression (and 2 & 3 have GOOD compression, stalling it when you unplug the wire).

Pray to god its just a cracked head. But if it cooked that bad you might as well just drop another engine in since itll will more than likely start burning oil pretty bad through the rings if it is head/gasket.

Fix the leak and run it and see what happens. Run a compression test and change the oil. Maybe itll be alright.

[73sport]

What was the actual time and distance driven on the last round? Tell us the worst case. . . .

Are we talking 10minutes from A to B or 2 hours A to B? 5 miles or 50 miles?

I like the JB weld for a temp fix. Good Idea, I think I'd roll with that. Scuff it with 36 grit, and lay it on. Maybe even some fiberglass clothe for extra strength.

[Jason.MZW20]

The engine stall is a fail-safe in the ECU. It advances the timing at idle with increasing temperature above 212F. At 240F+, it maxes the timing advance and stalls to force the issue. During driving, it retards the timing to the maximum amount at the same temperature (240F+).

Cylinders 1 and 4 are controlled by the same ignition coil. It could be the coil that's fried from excessive heat. It is bolted to the cylinder head after all. But, I'd do a real compression test to be sure.