2000 camry, 4 cyl., timing belt alignment problem

[1otis1]

i have a 2000 4 cyl. automatic transmission camry. Im replacing the timing belt at 150,000. I messed up when i took the old belt off and never made marks on the belt or pulleys to help me match up the new belt. That was my mistake. Now I am having trouble aligning the new belt up perfectly so that my marks on the cam align with my 0 degree tdc on the crank. by moving the belt one tooth either way on the cam pulley, I am only able to get the crank to line up at either 5 degrees before or after tdc. Never at 0 degrees tdc.
I have made multiple attempts at lining these up but with always got the same two results no matter what.
I've run the car with both alignments and it runs better at 5 degrees after tdc but still is a little funny(tach moves very slightly up and down)
Could this be because I have not put everything back together yet(power steering belt, alternator belt, engine mount..) or am i just off and need to get the marks lined up perfectly?
Also, when I took the old belt off, I did align the cam shaft up with its marks and the crank mark was after 0 degrees tdc. I figured that this was because the old belt was stretched out.
My only options as far as lining up the correct timing are to put the old belt on correctly with all of the teeth lined up right? there is nothing else i could do? Thanks for the help

[73sport]

2 more things to consider

1) the old one was off a tooth.
2) the balancer has moved. Notice its two pieces bonded by rubber? In some cases the outer shell moves from the inner core. The outer shell has the marks for timing and there is no visual alignment for you to know the two never moved.
There is one thing you can do and that is to use a dial indicator through the #1 spark plug hole, using a positive stop through the plug hole, or using a long screw driver. to guestimate TDC by feeling when the piston quits moving. Read on. . .

Do a search and read the many articles on finding TDC when the mark is wrong.

The thing is if TDC by the piston location shows the balancer shell moved, it should be replaced UNLESS the timing cover is wrong? Is that possible? Is it burned, melted, distorted?

Take a look at this. Both are kinda lame but you get the idea.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/true...top-78054.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-Your-Eng...ad-Center-(TDC)

Thing is, At TDC the piston has dwell; meaning, you can move the crank but the piston really doesn't move. Think of this using a 360 degree wheel. As you turn the crank the piston is approaching TDC so you see it moving up. Say 355 degrees piston movement stops but is detected again at 5 degrees on the way down. So you rotate the crank back from 5 to 0 and that is TDC. Now align the cam with the mark on the head and install the belt.

If the crank pointer lines up with 0=TDC great. If it doesn't you know the pointer is off or the shell slipped.

Hope this helps and PS - cam timing and distributor advance timing are different things. Don't confuse the two as I suspect that's what happening to you.

[1otis1]

thanks for the replys....
in answer to your first question. no I dont believe the original belt was off a tooth as the motor was still running well. In answer to your second question, I guess its possible that the balancer has shifted.
I guess my question really is...how difficult is it to line up the marks for both pulleys and put the new belt on. And by difficult i mean how tight is the belt between the two pulleys when you put it on?

[73sport]

Well, it helps to strong arm the cam pulley with a wrench moving it from its mark just a tad to slip the belt over. It should be looser than a G string but tighter than the F sting!

OK - it shouldn't sound like a piano, prolly means its not seated all the way in one of the pulleys. Just so when you're done both marks align, it should be good.

Oh - read this, the balancer does move!
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh....php?p=3307076