High mileage engine treatments? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

xanixx · 10-04-2010, 07:58 PM

Are they useless or they do anything good? My Camry is 96 and I use those oil additives once a year... they're called "high mileage engine treatment", different kinds of them that claim to lubricate and protect from wear and tear and clean the engine at the same time. I'm not sure how it works and last time I did oil change they tried to sell me some additive for $9 as well... so I wonder if there's any use for them or can they even harm my car possibly.

bigbird · 10-04-2010, 08:00 PM

i use them about twice a year but have never really "felt" any difference. i do it however for piece of mind and because of extra cash budgeted for oil changes n such. i will say that for having nearly 200k, my engine only lightly "sweats" in a few places. not sure if that is partly from the treatments or not but hey, id rather keep it up then stop and see what happens.

your likely gonna see someone post a link to some "addatives are bad" study or something like that. but ive never had any problems that the various studies claim. thats just people posting crap they saw on the internet though they havnt really tried anything.

***PhatRoyale*** · 10-04-2010, 08:54 PM

I would just switch to a high mileage motor oil and call it a day.

carsrus · 10-04-2010, 10:08 PM

Yeah use high mileage oil, every time. I dont find any reason to add additives unless you have a problem. (A leak is NOT a problem, fix it.)

Older engines should run 10w30, anything over 100kish. Anytime you start smoking, just even a bit, 10w40 minimum.

Idk whats up with the whole 5w30 push everyone's so anal about.

***fenixus*** · 10-04-2010, 10:13 PM

well, i like some engine treatments.

I did sea foam (at 64k miles) on 5s-fe and a few k miles later I did the Auto-RX treatment. while sea foam (it's aggressive treatment especially when added to crank case with oil) helped with engine response, the auto-rx didn't change much, i just hope engine inside got cleaner as the oil change showed all black after roughly 1k miles (rinse phase).

I'm planning on doing both treatments (not at same time of course) on my recent 1mz-fe in Spring. don't wanna risk any blown gaskets before Winter, so I'd rather do it when weather stabilizes.

and ... yeah, i use only 5w-30 and both cars are (and CAN) running on full synthetics with no trouble, no smoke, no leaks.

***projektvertx*** · 10-04-2010, 10:29 PM

Here is a better solution, use High Mileage oil, a good brand and a high quality. Cut your OCI in half for a couple of cycles. End of story.

peshwa · 10-05-2010, 10:33 AM

I bought STP oil treatment but havent bothered to put that in my oil. My research indicated nothing beneficial about STP additive considering how great today's engine oils are.
I instead switched to Pennzoil High Mileage 10W30 and changed the PCV valve. That thing works. It slowed down my distributor leak to almost nothing now.
I havent gathered the courage to dump seafoam in my oil but I guess I will do it this time I change my oil.
My only worry is the rear main seal as thats the only seal not been changed in my car right now :-)

xanixx · 10-05-2010, 02:19 PM

Thanks for advice I'm going to try to switch to high mileage oil now. The thing is I usually do an oil change at Shell station using a coupon so I had no choice as to which oil was used... and I'd just pour additive on top of what they put in a car. Now I guess I'll just buy oil and ask how much they'd charge for work/filter alone (have no place to do oil change myself in my city).

The Camry has 170K and I heard that it's a bad idea to use synthetic oils on a car of that generation, is it true? (1996) Mine also has a slow leak through rear main seal and I can't afford to fix it now... so I'm wondering if any special oils or additives can worsen the leak. I poured "stop leak" treatment into it once (I think it was STP) with no effect whatsoever (but similar thing did fix really bad powersteering leak before, so I thought it was worth trying)

xanixx · 10-05-2010, 02:57 PM

I found this posted on another car message board:

OIL ADDITIVES:

FRICTION MODIFIERS: Slick 50, Prolong, Duralube etc... These use proprietary ("secret") formulas that use molebdium disufide, Teflon and any number of a variety of goop to "improve" the lubrication (slipperyness) of oil. DON'T USE THEM IN YOUR ENGINE! Many of the ingredents can actually cause DAMAGE long term. (NOTE: Friction modifiers CAN be a good thing in MANUAL gearboxes and differentials BUT, you must be VERY CAREFUL what you add. Many manufactuer's actually use additives right from the factory for these applications but NEVER in engines.

VISCOSITY IMPROVERS: Motor Honey, STP etc THICK goop added to oil that basically thickens it up. These work, BUT, AGAIN, DO NOT USE THEM. If you want thicker oil, just buy thicker oil! These can be a very bad thing in areas of COLD WEATHER as they can restrict oil passages, pumpability and start up lubrication.

SEALERS AND SEAL "SWELLERS": "CDxx, "High Mileage" oils, Oil "Stop leak" products etc.. These use a chemical additive to actually soften and/or swell seals (such as valve guide seals) in an engine to reduce oil leaks and burning. These also work, BUT, should NOT be added more than ONCE with an oil change. (Continued use can actually soften seals to the point of failure!) Long term use can result in deposits that can actually clog up oil passages. They "may" stop a MINOR rear main seal leak but are NOT a permanent solution. If you have a leak, it needs to be fixed. They can reduce oil burning PROVIDED it is caused by worn valve guide seals, but again is NOT a permnanent fix.

SOLVENTS AND OIL SOLVENT MIXES: Marvel Mystery Oil, any product that says "Quiets noisey lifters", SeaFoam etc.. These products contain highly refined and very THIN lubricating oils and a variety of petroleum and non petroleum based solvents. These also work. By introducing solvent into to the oil stream (or fuel stream) to break up, soften or disolve carbon, varnishes and other deposits and can help to "clean" out an engine internals and quiet lifters clogged up by such deposits. They are also not a "cure all" but can net good results if used according to instructions. Products such as MMO have proven themselves over the years to be safe and reliable as well as versitile. These likewise are NOT a "cure all" but can pull a marginal lifter or engine full of neglectful gunk back from the brink if combined with more frequent oil changes to flush out the goop they disolve. DO NOT use "5 Minute Motor Flush" or similiar products. These are basically just Kerosine and result in filthy highly diluted oil running through the oil system for way too long (even 5 minutes is too long IMHO) you also will NOT be able to drain it all out afterward so it will continue to contaminate and thin the fresh oil you pour in and clog the new filter.

ENGINE "IMPROVERS": Restore, Tune Up in a Can etc..These products actually contain various suspended METALS, seal swellers, solvents and lubricating oils. Some folks swear by them. The jury is still out. In my opinion anything particle wise is not a good thing in oil (that's why you have an oil filter) One thing I DO KNOW for certain is that NOTHING you add to your oil is going to undo the wear of tens of thousands of miles...that's what rebuilds are for.

BOTTOM LINE. NOTHING (to date) you can pour into your engine oil will make up for high mileage, mechanical problems or general wear or neglect. There are products that can help bring a NEW or minor problem back to normal, as well as some that can help keep things running good when used in moderation AND as part of the cars REGULAR MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE. Save the money you would spend on additives and spend it on maintenence and repair. That's the absolute bottom line.

TedL · 10-05-2010, 03:18 PM

That's the best advice in this thread. If someone doesn't think Toyota knows much about engines, why buy a Toyota?? Toyota and every other manufacurer I know of recommends against oil additives, with a few exceptions for very unusual situations.

deadrx7conv · 10-05-2010, 03:20 PM

Its not a bad idea to use synthetic oil ever. So, you heard wrong.

High mileage treatments are advertising/marketing driven. Great profit makers for whoever is pushing them. Most are simply oil thickeners. Some might actually have some seal conditioners in them, which all oils already have.

If you have a slow leak, simply step up to a thicker oil weight or a high mileage oil.

High mileage oils tend to be a little thicker already and have more of those seal conditioners in them. But, they are blended at the correct treat rate(formula) to maintain the performance of the spec's listed on the bottle. When you buy a bottle of snot or whatever, you have no idea what the end performance result is of your frankenmix when mixing "insert overly hyped additive here" with your oil at whatever recipe ratio it ends up with.

***projektvertx*** · 10-05-2010, 04:31 PM

Oil companies already try and upsell their products, which are great as is. So if these additives are so benefitial, then why didn't oil refiners add them in the first place? And why isn't Toyota providing them to you? Good quality oil. Good quality filter. 'Nuf said. This coming from a guy who has 225K miles and no leaks.

EDIT: Also, think about how far oil refining and research in oil has gone in the last 10-15 years. Odds are, oil bought today EXCEEDS the specs for quality/viscosity that Toyota used when testing the engines in our cars.

xanixx · 10-05-2010, 09:39 PM

Makes sense, since Toyota doesn't recommend it... Though Toyota probably doesn't recomment high-mileage oil either, due to those oils having additives. May be should try regular 10w40 oil, without anything added.

But sometimes I wonder is Toyota really interested in cars lasting forever or they're more interested in cars lasting long enough, but then a person having to buy a new Toyota...

***fenixus*** · 10-05-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanixx

But sometimes I wonder is Toyota really interested in cars lasting forever or they're more interested in cars lasting long enough, but then a person having to buy a new Toyota...

make your guess. do they want to sell new cars or not?

***PhatRoyale*** · 10-05-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanixx

Thanks for advice I'm going to try to switch to high mileage oil now. The thing is I usually do an oil change at Shell station using a coupon so I had no choice as to which oil was used... and I'd just pour additive on top of what they put in a car. Now I guess I'll just buy oil and ask how much they'd charge for work/filter alone (have no place to do oil change myself in my city).

The Camry has 170K and I heard that it's a bad idea to use synthetic oils on a car of that generation, is it true? (1996) Mine also has a slow leak through rear main seal and I can't afford to fix it now... so I'm wondering if any special oils or additives can worsen the leak. I poured "stop leak" treatment into it once (I think it was STP) with no effect whatsoever (but similar thing did fix really bad powersteering leak before, so I thought it was worth trying)

The thing about stop leak is it's pretty much a double edged sword, while it can stop or slow down an existing leak if it works properly, if it doesn't, you're at risk of increasing the amoung of sludging that goes on in the engine.

I personally would stop usage of any and all additives.

You can use synthetic no problem, it's just personal preference of how much you want to spend in the end for an oil change. But since you're leaking I'd go with something cheaper (but not too cheap).

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanixx

Makes sense, since Toyota doesn't recommend it... Though Toyota probably doesn't recomment high-mileage oil either, due to those oils having additives. May be should try regular 10w40 oil, without anything added.

But sometimes I wonder is Toyota really interested in cars lasting forever or they're more interested in cars lasting long enough, but then a person having to buy a new Toyota...

A good oil to start out is Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic Blend (red bottle). It's thick enough to resist shearing and premature burn off and has an additive packages built in to condition worn out seals (that cause leaks like in your case). It's gotten plenty of good reviews over on bob is the oil guy.

Start out with changing your oil every 5000 miles. Continue this for a year or so and see if the condition improves.