5SFE Heads

[gregk]

I've been lurking for some time as a Tercel owner. I just picked up a 93 Camry w/ 5SFE. Seller said it has a blown head gasket. I know a guy with a rebuilt head from a California 96 Celica 5SFE who will sell it to me for a good price. Anybody know if it will work or what mods I have to make to get a 96 "California" head to work on a 93 "Federal" engine. Thanks.

[Mister_Perkins]

The Calif car had an extra 02 sensor, differant distributor, compuiter, O2 sensors, injectors, CYLINDER HEAD and maybe EGR valve. There could be more differances.

The 1995 Calif had an extra converter that was bolted to the exhaust manifold. Not sure on the 1994. If you have this the Fed engine will not.

The engine block was changed for all 5S-FE something around 1995 including a change in the crank gear the turns the balance shafts.

Would think if you got an engine that was close in year you could swap the external parts.

Around 1996 Toyota started to modify the ign system by adding external sensors for cam then crank, finally removing the distributor around 1999.

I would keep looking for a Federal head for your 93. They are around. I actually have one if your interested. PM ME

[Mister_Perkins]

Just a quick Question, why are you looking for a new head if your head gasket is all that is bad?

Wouldn't it make more sense just to get a new head gasket and call it a day??

[gregk]

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't actively looking, just came across it for sale. I thought that it would be a lot easier to just buy this and install it rather than taking my head to be planed and at least take out the valves and lap them in and put new seals. The rebuilt head is already planed , has new guides, valve job and seals. This one also has a cam cover, cams, fuel rail and injectors with it. And it would be cheaper than me doing all that to my head.
Do you know what the differences in just the heads are? I have heard Cal. head uses different injectors and has some kind of port between intake holes 2 and 3. I have verified that injectors have different part numbers but don't know what the difference is.

[Mister_Perkins]

Originally Posted by gregk

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't actively looking, just came across it for sale. I thought that it would be a lot easier to just buy this and install it rather than taking my head to be planed and at least take out the valves and lap them in and put new seals. The rebuilt head is already planed , has new guides, valve job and seals. This one also has a cam cover, cams, fuel rail and injectors with it. And it would be cheaper than me doing all that to my head.
Do you know what the differences in just the heads are? I have heard Cal. head uses different injectors and has some kind of port between intake holes 2 and 3. I have verified that injectors have different part numbers but don't know what the difference is.

I am not exactly sure in the differences in the heads.. I know right off hand the Cali and Fed. use different ECU's, Injectors, external coil vs internal coil. Why are you planning on changing out the cams and seals? If you take the head that is on your car and bring it to a machine shop it will cost you about $200 to get the head resurfaced / cleaned, new valve seals, re-seating the valves, polishing the cams. Just to get the head re-surfaced your looking at $40-$45.00 at most machine shops. $40-$60.00 for a head gasket kit (has head gasket, intake, exhaust, TB, EGR, injector O-Rings, Valve Cover Gasket, Spark plug Gaskets, Valve Stem Seals.)

==

Depending on the production code of the
engine stamped on the front of the cylinder
head, two types of head gaskets are used.
Use a composite type Part #11115574081,
if the engine number is lower than
5985000. Use a metal type (MLS), Part
#1111574120, if the engine number is
5985000 or higher. It is important to use
the correct style head gasket in attempts to
seal this type of coolant leakage. The
mounting bolt torque for both style gaskets
is the same, 36 ft/lbs, plus an additional 90°
turn.

Head Gasket
==Composite Type== 11115-74080
==Metal Type== 11115-74120
Valve Grind Gasket Set - Federal Spec.
==Composite Type== 04112-74580
==Metal Type== 04112-74581
Valve Grind Gasket Set - California Spec.
==Composite Type==04112-74600
==Metal Type== 04112-74601
Cylinder Head - Federal Spec. = 11101-09050
Cylinder Head - California Spec. = 11101-09060


Also keep all of this in mind too

[gregk]

Well, That Cali head is a lot less than $200 and already has all that machine shop work done to it so if I can make it work it would save me time and money . Found s/n on block and it's 5301866 so I'll use composite set (thanks for that info). I do see that the sets are different for Cali and Fed.

[Mister_Perkins]

hey man, You could always get that head and try to get it to work. Just post your results on if it works or not. Post pictures too

[larocque44]

while on the subject and sorry to tread jack but to 3S-GTE cams swap into that head easy?

[Mister_Perkins]

3sgte cams won't work. 5sfe cams are a totally different design. On the 5s. You have 1 external cam gear. And a a set of ghost gears as I call it. Or the intake drives the exhaust cam. On the 3s you have 2 cam gears independent of each other. What you can do is have your cams sent to a shop and they can grind your cam down to achieve a higher/more aggressive lift.

[Mister_Perkins]

[gregk]

Yes If I end up getting it I will post my findings.

[Mister_Perkins]

Cool . Sorry i could be of more assistance

[Mister_Perkins]

Hey Gregk, I did a little research and I think that that California head May work. I think that the biggest difference between the FED and CALI heads are on the intake manifold themselves (extra stuff for emissions) I think that just the head itself though is the same. Just thought I would let you know what I found out. I did notice that the injectors are a different design... The California injectors have an Insulator and the Grommet looks like it might be diffreent and the Federal Injectors just have a Grommet.. no insulator. You would be using Federal parts though, So I am thinking that it probably would bolt up. Thats the only difference I see between FED and CALI that actually enters the head though... Other than that, the Intake Manifolds are the only other difference I see!

Sorry about doubting that it will work, I guess I should have researched it a little more :P

Pictures of Differences :

[tedmich]

The only Fed vs Cali head difference is the extra air tube on the Cali, which can be blocked and forgotten. The fuel injector holes MAY be different to allow the extra o-ring/insulator. My 5sfe head cost $40 to have resurfaced at cool PDX machine shop, buttoned it up with permatex Cu spray on block and its ready for another 280k.

IMO the 3SGTE heads on the 5sfe block are for the poor Mr2 guys who usually end up dropping +10k on forged pistons/rods and turbo/nitrous setup so they don't get totally pwned by their riceburner friends...

[Jason.MZW20]

CA 5SFEs have air-assist injectors rated at 250cc/min and are FULL sequential (each injector has a driver at the ECU for a total of 4). The injection scheme is more efficient and the air-assist atomizes the fuel better at idle, which helps to smooth out rough idling.

The 1993 5SFE has 2 group injection (2 drivers at the ECU; 2 paired cylinders fire at the same time) and lacks air assist. Injector rate is 225cc/min.

Without the accessory stuff, you don't gain anything from a CA 5SFE head. It has the same valve lift, diameters, etc.

Also, you don't just drop a 3SGTE head on a 5SFE block. Usually, you already have a 3SGTE and want a stroker motor, so you use the 5S block (which has been proven to be stronger), crank/flywheel, and have the 3SGTE rods modified to fit the 5S crank. This results in about 2.1L of displacement. You can also have the oil jet holes machined into the 5S block if you absolutely need them. 3SGTE cams aren't the same duration/lift as 3SGE cams, so it'd also be pointless to use it in an normally aspirated setup.