Oil Analysis results for my 95 Camry 5SFE Engine

[TRD95]

Just wanted to share with everyone how my Oil test results came out. A lot of people on the forum have been discussing which oil is best to prolong the life of their engine. Apparently this shows that it's not so much about the oil itself but rather how long the oil is used. According to the lab, I must shorten my intervals to 2,000 miles between oil changes to reduce bearing wear which tested high. The good part is that my insolubles tested low, so no sludge worries for me. Also no coolant or fuel found in the oil. With 330,500 miles racked up I feel pretty confident that I can reach 350,000 miles without a problem with this engine.

By the way, this is further proof that the 5SFE HATES to be run with low and worn oil!

Sorry for the crummy image. Can't do much with converted PDF Files

I would strongly advise anyone who's worried about their engine oil to have it analyzed. It will erase any doubts you may have about not only the oil you're using, but also how you're using it (oil change intervals).

[Stillrunning]

Why the 10w-40 oil? At 350k I'd doubt 2000 OCI would give you any better readings. How long have you been oil testing this car?

[shadezz]

Thats some interesting info..........

[peshwa]

THanks for posting the oil analysis. I too prefer doing my oil change just short of 3K miles on my camry. It all comes out black!
With the new oil the car drives very smooth and fast. If I do a lot of city driving then I change it little earlier maybe @ 2.5kish miles.

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by peshwa

It all comes out black!

"It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. The color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles. The ONLY way to accurately determine an oil's lubricating value or contamination level is through (spectrographic) oil analysis."

Not an endorsement of Amsoil, just a good explanation.
http://www.oilsandlube.com/oil-color.htm

[TRD95]

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

Why the 10w-40 oil? At 350k I'd doubt 2000 OCI would give you any better readings. How long have you been oil testing this car?

This is the first time I've tested the oil for this car. The reason I used 10w40 was because I had a lot of burnoff during startup due to my worn Valve Seals. I was told by the engineer at Blackstone Labs that using thicker oils INCREASE wear on initial startup overall. Heat is what allows engine oil to lubricate properly, so I went back to 10w30 oil (Still Castrol High Mileage). And as for the 2,000 OCI, this is recommended because the bearings are already wearing due to increased friction. There is more wear, therefore more contamination. If I were to run a longer OCI, I risk making the oil too abrasive and causing more damage. I can only control the damage now by shortening my interval. I do live in the Los Angeles Metro Area so I do abide by "Severe Duty" service guidelines.

Originally Posted by peshwa

THanks for posting the oil analysis. I too prefer doing my oil change just short of 3K miles on my camry. It all comes out black!
With the new oil the car drives very smooth and fast. If I do a lot of city driving then I change it little earlier maybe @ 2.5kish miles.

No problem Peshwa, I like sharing my information with everyone who takes interest in my findings. However, I would recommend you submit a oil sample if you're worried about extending your Oil Change Interval (OCI). I will tell you that only because the oil is dark in color doesn't mean its bad oil. This only means the molecular structure is changing. Diesel engines for example can go with OCIs as long as 45,000 miles on Synthetic Oils! The oil looks as dark as crude but it still keeps it's lubricating properties quite well. Keep in mind that Oil never wears out, only the additives in the oil do. Each engine wears differently and burns differently. Maybe you may benefit from a extended OCI. Like I said before, do a Oil Analysis to see where you stand. It'll tell you so much about your engine and it's oil

[fenixus]

thanks for sharing TRD95!

i was thinking about getting similar lab test on my 5s-fe solara motor oil after Winter (that would be full synthetic at a few k miles or so) ... It's amazing how you can tell what's going on inside the engine with a spectrograph analysis.
I (and others that were helping me in a bearing noise thread) suspect a bearing wear (already noisy and pinpointed to camshaft pulley area) ... wondering what the oil sample would show ...

[Stillrunning]

And as for the 2,000 OCI, this is recommended because the bearings are already wearing due to increased friction.

Your bearings are wearing at an even rate no matter how short your OCI. The lubricating property of the oil is not close to diminishing at 2k. Your only option to take wear particles out of the oil is better filtration, but at this stage the bearings have worn to a point approaching failure so additional expense is not warranted. What is more important than oil or OCI is filtration. I'd take the used pan oil and filter it through a coffee filter at oil change to see if you can see bearing material. On another vehicle I have I installed an additional by-pass filter that removes 100% of soot as well as filtration down to about 3 microns. I've also do oil analysis about once per year to monitor changes in engine wear and contaminates. All this depends on how long you expect to keep the car. If you turn it over every 5 years don't bother with the extra expense. Using oil analysis is also a good way to investigate engine condition when buying a used vehicle. For instance a new owner will not know of impeding bearing failure without analyzing the oil.

[JohnGD]

Good info! I agree it's not the oil itself but the contaminants that's loading it up.

I have always questioned even the 3000 mile interval with the wimpy crankcase size and the wimpy filter. (This goes for the 2.4L and 2.5L too, not to mention the V6 using the same wimpy sized cartridge filter as the 2.5L). This interval may be good when the engine was new, but it would be inadequate as it ages.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1039578

Originally Posted by TRD95

Just wanted to share with everyone how my Oil test results came out. A lot of people on the forum have been discussing which oil is best to prolong the life of their engine. Apparently this shows that it's not so much about the oil itself but rather how long the oil is used. According to the lab, I must shorten my intervals to 2,000 miles between oil changes to reduce bearing wear which tested high. The good part is that my insolubles tested low, so no sludge worries for me. Also no coolant or fuel found in the oil. With 330,500 miles racked up I feel pretty confident that I can reach 350,000 miles without a problem with this engine.

[JohnGD]

What oil filter were you using? Maybe try a Purolator PureOne (such as the PL14477).

I wonder if a Lucas stop leak with 10W30 may help the stem seals better. I'd think the Lucas is stronger than typical HM oils. (I've only used their PS stop leak and it worked well).

On a side note: Check your local Sears ads, Mobil-1 5W-30 on sale for $4.99/qt.

Originally Posted by TRD95

This is the first time I've tested the oil for this car. The reason I used 10w40 was because I had a lot of burnoff during startup due to my worn Valve Seals. I was told by the engineer at Blackstone Labs that using thicker oils INCREASE wear on initial startup overall. Heat is what allows engine oil to lubricate properly, so I went back to 10w30 oil (Still Castrol High Mileage).

[Kitto]

To TRD95,

Did Blackstone suggest you other oil to try? What oil is in your car right now?
I think you can try Rotella 10W30 or 15W40, or Mobil Delvac 15W40. These oil are dual rated which is good for gas and diesel engine.
Look at the cSt Viscosity @ 100C, it's at 11.72 which they say the value should be between 11.6 to 14.8. This oil is sheared down to 30 weight oil already.
The oil I mentioned above usually have higher viscosity and more anti-wear additive which may benefit your engine.

[TRD95]

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

The lubricating property of the oil is not close to diminishing at 2k. Your only option to take wear particles out of the oil is better filtration, but at this stage the bearings have worn to a point approaching failure so additional expense is not warranted. What is more important than oil or OCI is filtration.

That's exactly what I was thinking about. And I have been debating whether to install a bypass filter myself. But I will give Blackstone's advice a try. I will also be doing a TBN test next time to see if the oil lubricating properties are worn out. If not (as we both expect) then I will go with a bypass set up with a 3 micron filter.

Originally Posted by JohnGD

Good info! I agree it's not the oil itself but the contaminants that's loading it up.

I have always questioned even the 3000 mile interval with the wimpy crankcase size and the wimpy filter. (This goes for the 2.4L and 2.5L too, not to mention the V6 using the same wimpy sized cartridge filter as the 2.5L). This interval may be good when the engine was new, but it would be inadequate as it ages.

On the 2AZ-FE Engine I would definitely not worry about going 5k OCI, especially on synthetic 5w30. My friend's 2005 Scion tC is at 75k and the oil always looks like a clear light brown at 5k. I'm not familiar with the new 2AR-FE Engine, so I cannot say if the recommended 10k OCI is any good (my guess is that in severe duty situations it's not, so I would also go 5k OCI for that engine).

Originally Posted by JohnGD

What oil filter were you using? Maybe try a Purolator PureOne (such as the PL14477).

I've always used genuine toyota oil filters for my car. My technician uses only genuine toyota parts where applicable. He also always uses toyota's timing belt service kit, brake pads, suspension parts (lower control arms, ball joints, and tie rod ends. those things are NOT cheap from toyota!). On occasion I have used Wix filters, which I've heard that they're the equivalent of Napa Gold filters. Not sure if that is true. Purolators are also fine filters, we used them in College (I am a Diesel Mechanic).

Originally Posted by JohnGD

I wonder if a Lucas stop leak with 10W30 may help the stem seals better. I'd think the Lucas is stronger than typical HM oils. (I've only used their PS stop leak and it worked well).

I've tried a number of products to control the seal issue. I've gotten mixed results. In the end, I quit using treatments since I've been told I'm only causing more damage (which can also explain my high bearing wear). I'm just going to run it as it is until she quits. Then I'll just pick up another 5SFE and run that one to the ground.

Originally Posted by JohnGD

On a side note: Check your local Sears ads, Mobil-1 5W-30 on sale for $4.99/qt.

I'm not a fan of synthetic oil for this car, mainly because my oil leaks then become way too noticeable. I've fixed most of the problem areas and I'm only sticking to Dino oil. But, I will be picking some up for my Audi A4! Thanks for the heads up!

Originally Posted by fenixus

thanks for sharing TRD95!

i was thinking about getting similar lab test on my 5s-fe solara motor oil after Winter (that would be full synthetic at a few k miles or so) ... It's amazing how you can tell what's going on inside the engine with a spectrograph analysis.
I (and others that were helping me in a bearing noise thread) suspect a bearing wear (already noisy and pinpointed to camshaft pulley area) ... wondering what the oil sample would show ...

No problem! I like to share information with the community. It allows us to learn what to do, and also what NOT to do. I suggest you do a analysis to see where you stand. With today's advancements in technology it's absolutely amazing what we're able to detect. What's sad is that the general public doesn't take interest in these things. Just imagine how much money people would save by either fixing their engines before catastrophic failure, or even by simply extending their OCI.

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by TRD95

No problem! I like to share information with the community. It allows us to learn what to do, and also what NOT to do. I suggest you do a analysis to see where you stand. With today's advancements in technology it's absolutely amazing what we're able to detect. What's sad is that the general public doesn't take interest in these things. Just imagine how much money people would save by either fixing their engines before catastrophic failure, or even by simply extending their OCI.

very true.

also I have to add that I would not EVER go above 3k OCI on dino oil in 5s-fe. at least my engine runs pretty hot, especially after highway driving and then at idle after exiting highway. my obd2 scanner shows it runs 212-214F before rad fans kick in ... that's way hotter than 1mz-fe for instance.

I also know from past that dino oil becomes very dirty (visually black, which doesn't exactly mean worn out) in those engines at 3k miles and even worse past that... I am not a fan however of running dino ... they got my engine dirty over 3 years (was using cheap oil filters though) ... even after sea foam treatment (all 3 points of entry) the valve cover shows some black streaks, probably a residue of what was going on before treatment... sole reason why I switched to fully synthetic (had to fix valve cover gasket because of that, was leaking badly at 68k miles) is more cleaning and I can safely do at least 3k miles on that ... actually hoping it will hold clean (more or less) 4-5k miles over Winter (did it once a year ago, oil was not too dirty at looks).

and on top of everything, I strongly agree about using the best oil filters out there too! now running mostly Toyota OEM (got a case of 10pcs some times ago cheap from online dealer promo), but in past I ran it also on Purolator PureOne (yellow) which are said by some to be actually best even over Mobil1 filters - this I will use over this Winter, got good DIY deal from Advance Auto some time ago $29.99 for 5qts of 5w-30 with M1 filter.

... but I'm actually thinking about changing the oil filter half way through Winter 4-5k OCI, easy to do on 5s-fe and can be achieved pretty clean when car is cold like in the morning, spill is minimal, just need to top off the oil with 0.2qts after swapping filters.

I think it's all about oil filtering, not actually about the oil wearing out so quickly in those engines which however can be the case also due to higher engine idling/running temps (life of oil shortened).

[deadrx7conv]

I wouldn't worry about bearing wear. Its a high mileage engine so don't expect it to look or wear like a new engine. You don't need to shorten your interval. 3k/3mo is a good interval for a mineral oil. With a TBN, you could possible increase the interval, even with this oil, to 5k or more. And, as always, you should top off the oil as needed regularly.

Wear numbers look excellent. Stick with the 3k intervals. Nothing wrong with 10w40 except that it sheared too low which some 40 weight oils typically do. Any, since you live in SoCal, 10w40 is probably a good weight to use. 5w40 or 0w40 can be used if you want better cold start flow/protection. 15w40 is great if you're on a budget. What did you use as top off oil?

I wouldn't bother with a bypass oil filter. With 300k+ miles, your oil pump is tired and might not have enough excess flow and pressure to feed a bypass oil filter. You need that flow/psi in the engine. You can scavenge oil flow and pressure by removing the balance shafts(if you have 'em).

I believe in certain OE parts. But, there is nothing special about the Toyota oil filter.
.3 insolubles isn't too bad but nothing to brag about. I use an over sized oil filter on my 2.2L. The Tundra 2004 4.7L filter fits if you want OE and an aftermarket PN is PH3614. I use a PH3600 sized oil filter, usually the Motorcraft FL400s or FL2005 or equivalent.

They claim no coolant was found but potassium is '4', which usually comes from antifreeze. Even a couple drops of antifreeze can create higher bearing wear numbers. Toss in a bottle of antifreeze stop leak. I use a bottle Subaru coolant conditioner as a prevention in all my vehicles. Another preventative would be the BG 511 coolant sealer.
http://homepage.mac.com/smoresi/.Pictures/SOA635071.jpg

I've been using synthetic oil because the 2.2L in 1999 is a certified sludge monster. No sludge here and peace of mind is good. Synthetic oil doesn't cause oil leaks or seal/gasket problems.

The problem with some fancy oil filters, like the Mobil1, Amsoil, Purolator Pureone, Fram Toughgard, RoyalPurple... is that you usually give up flow/psi for filtration. Most fancy filters are NOT worth the $8-$12 that they asked for. You might be better off with a poorer filter that doesn't restrict oil flow/psi. And, recently Amsoil pulled some of their Toyota oil filter recommendations because Toyota engines cook oil which loads up filters up too quickly. Oil cooker engine is another good reason to use synthetic.

If you're burning too much oil, and the UOA shows 2 quarts added, alternate between different oil brands as each company uses their own specific formulas, additives, and suppliers. You might find a oil that reduces your problem.

If you're a gambler, you could try Autorx, Lubegard, Rislone, or Lucas.
http://www.barsproducts.com/100QR.htm
http://www.auto-rx.com/
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-180/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
http://www.lucasoil.com/images/media...97E6D69C76.pdf
http://www.lucasoil.com/images/media...Stabilizer.pdf

[akhoundog]

alittle off topic but..


would replacing the oil pump be a wise move to improve engine life?