Ticking - Possible Valve Issue? (w/ video)

[agni]

Hi all,

The car is a '96 Camry LE, 5SFE, with 150,000 mi. I purchased it used at around 140k, and it has always made this rather loud ticking noise. I've poked my head around in the engine bay, used a screw driver, etc. to try to pinpoint the source, and I'm fairly sure it is coming from the valve train. I've checked the valve clearances, and they were all within spec (actually tighter side, though the engine was still slightly warm when I checked them. I did notice that there was some slight buildup/varnish under the valve cover, but nothing too excessive. I've been doing regular oil changes using Castrol and Wix filters. By the way, the noise is not noticeable while driving. It is also noticeably louder when the engine is at operating temperature (as in the video) vs. when it is cold.

Video

Any thoughts?

[Mister_Perkins]

Sounds like my 5sfe. My valves are out of adjustment. May be your issue too

You Tube

You Tube

Grab yourself a mechanical oil pressure gauge and install it where your oil pressure switch goes and monitor the oil pressure.

at normal operating temperature it should read 4.3Psi or more at idle
at 3,000 rpm it should read 36 – 71 psi


If you have low oil pressure, it could be related to a bad oil pump, clogged pickup, or your main bearings could be bad on the crankshaft.

[reluctantmechanic]

love the videos

[agni]

Originally Posted by Mister_Perkins

Sounds like my 5sfe. My valves are out of adjustment. May be your issue too

Grab yourself a mechanical oil pressure gauge and install it where your oil pressure switch goes and monitor the oil pressure.

at normal operating temperature it should read 4.3Psi or more at idle
at 3,000 rpm it should read 36 – 71 psi


If you have low oil pressure, it could be related to a bad oil pump, clogged pickup, or your main bearings could be bad on the crankshaft.

With regard to the valve clearance, I have checked them and all were within spec.

Testing the oil pressure seems like a good idea. I take it low oil pressure would suggest that the camshaft isn't being lubricated enough. Just out of curiosity, what part(s) be making the "ticking" noise if this were the case?

I'll try to get ahold of an oil pressure gage and report back.

I've also heard suggestions that a loose spring on the exhaust camshaft sub-gear can cause a similar ticking noise. Can anyone verify this?

[V65rider]

When checking the valves, would they get tighter over time from the valve seats wearing? Or would the get looser?
What part of the valve causes the misalignment?

[agni]

I finally got around to testing the oil pressure. At idle it fluctuated between 18-19 psi and at 3,000 rpm it stayed steady at 50 psi - so it doesn't seem like oil starvation is the problem. Perhaps I should just consider the noise normal? We've got another 5sfe camry of the same generation that is much quieter, though. I guess it's just more annoying than anything.

[Mister_Perkins]

Yeah your oil pressure seems to be A-OK.

nah, the noise isn't supposed to be there.

If you really want to fix the problem, have your head machined and re-worked (new valve springs, retainers, clips, valves reseated, etc..)

Your in the same boat as I am. I am going to have an extra head I have re-worked and swap it out with my head thats on it right now.

I adjusted my valves and it still makes the same noise, so that tells me its a problem with the springs or valves themselves

[kydude7]

I also have this same issue but i figured it was lifters ticking. Gonna try some lucas and see where im at after that.

[Mister_Perkins]

I doubt the lifter buckets are making a tapping noise :

[kydude7]

It's more like a tick but i geuss i should check the valve clearance soon then.

[camry6]

Pull your base pan and grab each connecting rod bottom end and give 'em a wiggle till you find the one with the bad bearing. Yes even though you are sure the noise is coming from the top end, it is very likely at the crank. I've personally diagnosed a '95 5S-FE and an '02 1MZ-FE with noise seemingly from the top end, but both engines had a bad rod bearing.

[camry6]

Originally Posted by V65rider

When checking the valves, would they get tighter over time from the valve seats wearing? Or would the get looser?
What part of the valve causes the misalignment?

Valve seat wear will tighten the clearances, cam/bucket wear will cause greater clearance.

[agni]

Originally Posted by camry6

Pull your base pan and grab each connecting rod bottom end and give 'em a wiggle till you find the one with the bad bearing. Yes even though you are sure the noise is coming from the top end, it is very likely at the crank. I've personally diagnosed a '95 5S-FE and an '02 1MZ-FE with noise seemingly from the top end, but both engines had a bad rod bearing.

Wow I sure hope not. I was planning on taking off my pan next change to reseal it; would it be as simple as reaching up and wiggling the rods, or would I have to remove the balance shafts and/or oil strainer? (I've never had the pan off) And suppose they are a bit loose; wouldn't I have to pull out the crank and have it machined and install all new bearings? Could I do this all from underneath? Sorry for all of the questions . . . I'm kind of a noob at engine work.

[camry6]

Originally Posted by agni

Wow I sure hope not. I was planning on taking off my pan next change to reseal it; would it be as simple as reaching up and wiggling the rods, or would I have to remove the balance shafts and/or oil strainer? (I've never had the pan off) And suppose they are a bit loose; wouldn't I have to pull out the crank and have it machined and install all new bearings? Could I do this all from underneath? Sorry for all of the questions . . . I'm kind of a noob at engine work.

I don't mean to spell disaster for your engine, but it is possible that it is a worst-case-scenario. The 5S-FE I diagnosed was a few years back and I can't exactly remember what has to come off (besides the base pan of course) to reach the rods. I think you can get at them without removing the balancer shaft assembly, as for the oil pick-up I don't think thats a problem either. You may have to remove an oil baffle shield to get at it. (Maybe a TN member with 5S-FE experience can help out here?) Remember, side play is normal and at this point not important. Play that allows a piston and rod to move up and down independant of the crankshaft is not normal. If the rod bearings are good, they should be snug on the crank journals with no detectable play found using your hands. (except side to side play, that's O.K.) If it does have a bad bearing, then yea, things will get a little dicey, but just keep your mind "wrapped around" the worst-case-scenario. If your rods are in fact good, then yippee! I could be wrong, but I have seen the same type of problem before.

Good luck!

[camry6]

Originally Posted by Mister_Perkins

Yeah your oil pressure seems to be A-OK.

nah, the noise isn't supposed to be there.

If you really want to fix the problem, have your head machined and re-worked (new valve springs, retainers, clips, valves reseated, etc..)

Your in the same boat as I am. I am going to have an extra head I have re-worked and swap it out with my head thats on it right now.

I adjusted my valves and it still makes the same noise, so that tells me its a problem with the springs or valves themselves

If I were you, I would check your rod bearings as well, before I had a head rebuilt. Could be something in the bottom end, and watching your video, it sounds the same as the 5S-FE I looked at a few years back, with a bad rod bearing causing the noise. I could be wrong, but I have seen it before. Also the fluctuating oil pressure gauge at high RPM looks like oil pressure loss as a loose rod opens and closes the gap between the rod and journal oil port........unless it is vibration causing the needle to fluctuate. Try holding the gauge in your hand while you rev it.