P0441 and P0110 codes on our 1997 Camry - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


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3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001) Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001 Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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Old 11-18-2010, 07:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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P0441 and P0110 codes on our 1997 Camry

First of all, I have searched the forum for things related to this, but there are a couple of variables I have encountered that I doubt anyone else has experienced a combination of. That said -

Our 1997 2.2L Camry with 196k miles (that is driven every day) was invaded by a nesting mama rodent this past Spring and the IAT lead wire was gnawed in two. When I discovered it (due to a P0110 CEL), I removed the nest and stretched the wires back together at least enough for the light to stay reset. This happened three times in total (persistent pesky rodent) and when it finally gave up nesting there, I permanently soldered the wires back together and taped them up with some good 3M electrical tape.

We have had a P0441 CEL thrown every few months or so, and all I did for a while was clear it and go. But recently the car has gotten to where at low RPM's it would idle so low that a couple of times it cut off at a light. This was no big deal if I were driving, but my teenage daughter was a little spooked by it. I researched the code and found that if I unplugged the vacuum hose leading from the intake to the EVAP VSV (the rear hose on the component that is on the intake hose that has two hoses and an electric connection on it) it would run fine. The rear hose has constant vacuum when I put a finger in front of it, but it runs fine with it disconnected. I should add that the wires to this were gnawed also, but not severed at any time and not damaged nearly as much. I also repaired these wires.

So recently it threw the P0110 CEL again and the wire is intact (no gnawing this time). So I thought maybe the two codes were tied together (the wires leading to both tee into a main feed after all). I dismantled the EVAP VSV, cleaned it good with some MAF sensor cleaner (figured it would be safe), reassembled it, and replaced it. I reconnected the vacuum hose to the EVAP VSV (that rear one that leads to the intake) and tried it out. It still has the low idle if I connect it while running, but not as bad if I start it with the hose connected. But the weird thing is, the P0110 CEL will not stay cleared. I can clear it with my ScanGauge and it reappears a second later.

So what am I probably up against and what will it hurt to run like it is? I live in an area where it does not have to pass an emissions inspection or anything. I would like to fix it, but do not want to just throw expensive parts at it until I replace the right thing (I try not to do that with any car repairs I perform). I figured with my rodent damage and disconnected hose, my circumstances were unique enough to warrant a thread requesting help. I would greatly appreciate any experiences or knowledge on this and thank you in advance.

Tracy
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Anyone with any insight? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Let's verify the EVAP VSV again. When you get a P0441 EVAP Purge Flow problem it's usually the VSV. It gets old and gums up.

You can test it by removing the hose on the canister side. Run the warm engine and you should (test 1) hear loud vacuum at the open port. If you don't then the VSV needs to be cleaned again or replaced.

In addition, (test 2) use a volt meter and measure the battery voltage at the connector. Let's also make sure the VSV is getting battery voltage.

Did you pry back the metal tabs and clean it inside? Be careful the tabs break.

If the VSV is operating properly, then maybe you have a vacuum problem in the tank. Just remove the gas cap temporarily and see if that solves the problem. There are two types of gas caps, IIRC, one has both a pressure relief valve and a vacuum valve. The other just vacuum valve. (I can't remember exactly the combination however). There should be another vent port on the canister, IIRC.

And for P0110 this helps the ECU decide mixture, so it's important to get it right. Check the resistance at various temperatures and see if the ohm readings generally agree with spec. Also check the readings at the ECU connector inside the cabin as well for a more thorough check. I suspect the solder and tape connection may be no good?

I wonder if you should test by using a 300 ohm resistor in place of the IAT. Or just directly jumper the wires on the ECU side to simulate a hot summer day (ECU will add fuel later, resulting in + fuel trim, probably pegged too). But redo the wiring first. Maybe using a Posi-lock type connector. Find them at your local parts store.

http://www.posi-lock.com/

Test 3. I think you may have a dirty idle air control valve as well. Remove it completely and disassemble it to clean. This is a poor design, using duty cycled magnets to turn the vane and is just not strong enough.


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Originally Posted by ycartf View Post
We have had a P0441 CEL thrown every few months or so, and all I did for a while was clear it and go. But recently the car has gotten to where at low RPM's it would idle so low that a couple of times it cut off at a light. This was no big deal if I were driving, but my teenage daughter was a little spooked by it. I researched the code and found that if I unplugged the vacuum hose leading from the intake to the EVAP VSV (the rear hose on the component that is on the intake hose that has two hoses and an electric connection on it) it would run fine. The rear hose has constant vacuum when I put a finger in front of it, but it runs fine with it disconnected. I should add that the wires to this were gnawed also, but not severed at any time and not damaged nearly as much. I also repaired these wires.

So recently it threw the P0110 CEL again and the wire is intact (no gnawing this time). So I thought maybe the two codes were tied together (the wires leading to both tee into a main feed after all). I dismantled the EVAP VSV, cleaned it good with some MAF sensor cleaner (figured it would be safe), reassembled it, and replaced it. I reconnected the vacuum hose to the EVAP VSV (that rear one that leads to the intake) and tried it out. It still has the low idle if I connect it while running, but not as bad if I start it with the hose connected. But the weird thing is, the P0110 CEL will not stay cleared. I can clear it with my ScanGauge and it reappears a second later.

So what am I probably up against and what will it hurt to run like it is? I live in an area where it does not have to pass an emissions inspection or anything. I would like to fix it, but do not want to just throw expensive parts at it until I replace the right thing (I try not to do that with any car repairs I perform). I figured with my rodent damage and disconnected hose, my circumstances were unique enough to warrant a thread requesting help. I would greatly appreciate any experiences or knowledge on this and thank you in advance.

Tracy
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes, I did indeed pry open the metal fingers and clean all the "innards" of the EVAP VSV. And while you may be right about it, I am pretty sure that the IAT sensor wire is fine but I will check it again (not my first solder by any means and a soldered joint is "supposed to be" the best joining of two wires both for conduction and a mechanical bond). I even wrote a tutorial on installing a remote starter years ago here where I had to solder quite a bit.

I will use the other info you gave me too (as much as I can understand it or find the proper ranges to test it for) and I thank you very much for it.
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm no electrical expert, but for some reason I had the impression to use crimped/mechanical connections, rightly or wrongly.

Anyway, maybe you want to measure the resistance from the connector by the ECU to double check. I wonder if trying to measure 5v at the IAT connector would tell you something too

The other thing I can think of is the shorting of the wires when the rats chewed on it caused some problems back in the ECU. Because ECU does send 5v down that wire.


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Originally Posted by ycartf View Post
Yes, I did indeed pry open the metal fingers and clean all the "innards" of the EVAP VSV. And while you may be right about it, I am pretty sure that the IAT sensor wire is fine but I will check it again (not my first solder by any means and a soldered joint is "supposed to be" the best joining of two wires both for conduction and a mechanical bond). I even wrote a tutorial on installing a remote starter years ago here where I had to solder quite a bit.

I will use the other info you gave me too (as much as I can understand it or find the proper ranges to test it for) and I thank you very much for it.
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