Inconsistant Clutch Engagement

[dorifuto.boi]

EDIT: renamed thread. used to be called "kinda seriuos problem. please help"

hey guys, thanks for your time and opinions

i have a findanza lightweight flywheel and exedy stage 1 full face springed clutch disc kit.

i had a pretty bad vaccuum leak the first 2 days driving with the supercharger and got a CEL bank 1 lean. i fixed the CEL by getting rid of the leak and have been driving w my sueprcharger since for one week with stock size pulley

my clutch has inconssistant engagement points now (im not sure if it started before the s/c or after). i took it to aamco and they drove it and said that it definately did not feel like air in brake lines or leaking cylinders. they said it should be the springs on the pressure plate are messing up. they said that the springs on the pressure plate will mess up because of too much heat.


since i don't have my afr controller in yet, lets assume that my car now is NOT running lean. what are the chances that the 2 days that i ran lean w the supercharger destroyed my pressure plate but did not melt a hole in my pistons ?

lets assume that my car is STILL running lean. what are the chances that running lean for a week will overheat the pressure plate and not melt a holes in my cylinders ? can there be a chance that i'm running lean because the ecu can't compensate the fuel trims for the s/c or is it most definately a problem w my fuel delivery system (injectors, filter, pump, etc) ? (i don't have a lean code)


i know im sorry i don't have my wideband in yet. it just shipped out today. so please bear w me until i can install it. because i know that it would help a lot if we know if im still running lean as of today.

[Mister_Perkins]

I dont think that the pressure plate would change in function because the motor is running lean? It definitely could be messed up though because your running a SC. I could see the flywheel heating up a little more running lean, but other than that I dont think it would effect it extremely bad. Could be a defective part. Since its an aftermarket part (stage 1) i am assuming it has a little more oomf than a stock pressure plate / clutch assembly. I would find out if you have a warranty where you purchased the pressure plate / clutch and tell them whats going on.

Sounds to me like a manufacturer defect though

[dorifuto.boi]

warranty went out like 3 weeks ago. fml. i heard there are fake exedys. hope i didn't get a fake exedy pos.

i will try to call again and ask them if they can help me in anyway. i can't help but freak out cause this clutch thing has costed me over 2k already....

400usd labor + 300usd clutch kit + 300usd flywheel
THEN
400usd labor to replace the stupid TOB from the clutch kit after 3 months !
and now
400usd more labor to replace a damn pressure plate

[Mister_Perkins]

Yeah that would be crappy.

Like i said though, a lean condition shouldn't cause a clutch to go bad.

I bet one of the springs on the clutch let loose

[EEngineer]

that doesn't sound too good =\

where did you get the clutch?

when i got my exedy clutch + fidanza flywheel it came in a packge and the clutch looks really well made.

if it went this fast....there's gotta be something wrong.
either the installation was bad
or the clutch disc was fake

[dorifuto.boi]

i just dug up the receipt. i got the clutch from amazon
Exedy 16803a racing clutch kit sold by amazon
so it shouldn't be fake haha.

heres the thing
when i first had it put on at aamco florida, the clutch engaged really really low (pedal). once in a while, the pedal seemed lower than usual (even tho 'the usual' was already all the way on the ground) but there was never a time when i couldn't disengage the clutch.

so im pretty sure this problem has been happening since the day i got the exedy clutch kit put in. now all i need to figure out what the problem is. its weird that i have never had problem disengaging the clutch no matter how low on the floor it sat.

[Mister_Perkins]

I know on my 93 after i installed the clutch I had to engage the pedal almost all the way to the top as far as travel for it to engage. When it was almost gone (Before I changed it) It was towards the floor. After about a year of driving it engages a little over half way now

[dorifuto.boi]

ok so apparently according to everyone i talked to, engine heat isn't gonna cause the pressure plate to go bad. so either i got a bad pressure plate or theres something wrong w the hydraulics.

also according to other people, a mechancial problem (pressure plate) usually doesn't cause inconsistancies. so if i have a shitty pressure plate, its gonna be shit and isn't gonna be good half the time.

so i think instead of freaking out, im gonna get a new master, slave, lines, and see if that solves my problem. if not, then i'll look into it more

and about the car being lean, well my afr gauge will ship this week so i'll know for sure if im running rich or lean. which apparently has nothing to do with the pressure plate unlike what the aamco guy told me

[Mister_Perkins]

lol Yeah I dont know what that aamco guy was talking about.

Did you by chance install this clutch assembly yourself or did you have a mechanic do it? If you did it yourself, since the slave cylinder was disconnected you may have an Air bubble trapped inside the line causing the inconsistency. Just something to think about.

Also, If 1 or more fingers on the pressure plate are bent it may cause a weird feeling issue as well. Most of the time the clutch will go before the pressure plate though.

The internal piston seals on the master and slave cylinder can develop leaks that allow a loss of pressure when the clutch pedal is depressed. This may prevent the clutch from disengaging or allow it to engage prematurely (as when sitting at a stop light with the pedal all the way in). The pedal may also feel soft and have less than normal resistance. Slave cylinders develop leaks more often than master cylinders because the slave cylinder is the lowest point in the system. Any rust or dirt in the hydraulic fluid is therefore more apt to settle in the slave cylinder where it can cause seal problems.

If a newly installed clutch is slipping, the most likely causes would be oil or grease contamination, incorrect release system adjustment, a defective cable adjuster, a blocked clutch master cylinder port or binding slave cylinder, a misaligned or improperly installed release bearing, or improper flywheel machining of a step or cup flywheel.

[dorifuto.boi]

ok i found out when the clutch is normal (dis/engages in the middle) and when it turns to sheet (dis/engages at the floor)

i've always wondered why people shift when the revs are up so high on a manual transmission. when i started driving manual (when i first bought my car), i would shift below 2k most of the time. therefore by 35mph, im already in 5th gear.

when i had my few friends check out the clutch, it always dis/engaged in the middle and they would tell me that nothings wrong and to bring it back to them when it started being inconssistant again.

well i just went out for a drive and decided that i wanted to warm up the car and keep the revs high. even when the car became warm, i kept the revs high and didn't go through the gears so fast. i had 3 engine on/off cycles when i just went out to take a friend somewhere. the clutch was fine the whole time !

so apparently i suck at driving manual. would me going through gears one after another overheat the pressure plate and cause the springs to weaken ?

thanks,
d

edit: i just called exedy and they seemed to be really sure that temperature would not affect the pressure plate. agh this is pissing me off. i think im just going to go step by step on this one instead of trying to pinpoint the problem. i'll redo the whole hydraulic system first. im so tired of trying to figure out whats wrong. im just gonna start winging it from the cheapest thing first

[LynchburgCSI]

Fixed your thread title.

[Chris Crash]

Temp could definitely affect the PP...hot spots, anyone?

Sounds like air in the system to me. So at 35 mph....you're in 5th....? I'm barely in 3rd....5th doesn't happen till like 55-60.

[dorifuto.boi]

what are hot spots ? are they spots on the pressure plates that heat tends to flow towards ?

what would cause hot spots ? manufactuer defect or.. ?

i'll let you guys know what happens after the master/slave. it wont be done till i go home at the end of next week

[Eye8Pussies]

^ he's talking about hot spots on the flywheel- one of the reasons a flywheel would have to be resurfaced (or for fidanza, a new center piece installed)

and no, hot spots would not do what you're describing...it could make a clutch slip at odd and inconsistent times though, depending on if the clutch is grabbing on a hot spot on the flywheel



it sounds like a possible problem with the slave cylinder losing pressure- I would bleed everything first, then change the slave, then change the master

engine running lean and hot will NOT heat up a pressure plate and clutch- there isn't enough surface area to transfer the amount of heat needed to the clutch to make this occur

as for the pressure plate springs being shot- it's possible, but doubtful. If the springs were bad, the clutch would either slip or the engagement would be consistently low or both

[dorifuto.boi]

i replaced the master and slave a while ago.
i also bled the clutch a few times.
the problem still exists.

same issues:
inconsistant engagement point
inconsistant firmness
(normal firmness, normal engagement point; soft, low engagement point)

the problem (soft, low engagement point) seems more pronounced after highway driving. upon exiting, the engagement point is really low and i can barely get outof gear (barely but i still can (if its any lower then i wouldn't be able to))

im going to try to bypass the damper valve (maybe a particle is stuck in there ? and sometimes it blocks the passageway not allowing the fluid to flow through the damper valve ?)

if bypassing the damper valve doesnt work then im just gonna have to ask someone to disconnect the transmission to see if aamco installed my clutch correctly..... if its because aamco didn't install the damn clutch correctly i will be SO pissed.

im hoping that there was a quality problem with the clutch and that exedy will give me a new clutch. this sucks