Screwed the pooch in a big way...

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

Not a happy day in the progress of the destroked 5SFE I was working on - just found out after 8 months of waiting and waiting the new crank I bought last February was indeed CAST #$$%# IRON and not Forged Steel which was advertised... Should have been caught a clue when this new "Forging" weighed 38 lbs instead of the OEM unit weighing 41 lbs, but live and learn I guess - this crank looked every bit forged when I got it, but you can't be right all of the time (but this was a doozy!) In the end it looks like I will be out close to $700 counting the partial refund - "without the goddamn common decency to give him a reach-around" -
R Lee Ermey

I think the guy doing the work was more pissed than I was to find this out - why it took 8 months to unlock that secret is still a mystery - but at least he offered a partial refund for the work done - and I plan to take it! As some of you may know, cast iron is absolutely worthless when it comes to stroking or destroking a crank since it likes to crack when welded - a quality that is less than desirable when it comes to crankshafts...that's why EVERYONE uses forged steel!!!

But there is a tone of optimism here - Now instead of 1.9L I am looking at keeping the 2164cc displacent using 2JZGTE rods from Eagle. Will still have to get custom pistons with a different compression height, but that's not anything new. Keeping the stock (or close to it) displacement I get to have the low-end torque which is nice for city driving. Won't need to rev to 9500 RPM for decent power - my rev limit with these rods is like 8500 RPM or so - so there are trade-offs which don't make it SO bad...
These rods weigh 553g each - which is 100g heavier per rod - but I won't need a bunch more custom machine work which I originally had planned.

Will have to absolutely use the 1MZ throttle body for this since a 5SFE running at 8000RPM will need the same amount of air as a 1MZ V6 running at 5900RPM - which is sorta close to its redline. 5SFE at theoretical 8500RPM = 1MZ @ 6200RPM same air requirements. Anything higher than 8500RPM is too fast of a piston speed to be reliable - plus the ARP rod bolts at that speed are pretty stressed as well. And then monster port that intake...AGAIN...and see what happens. Not opposed to welding more aluminum on top of the runners and hogging it out more from the inside- but we'll cross that bridge in time

All in all - I have mixed emotions but I still plan on going the N/A route with this but with larger stock displacement and likely more tweaks to the cylinder head. A step backwards and a route change, but not deterred...:thumbsdo w

[bigbird]

that suck man, but you said it, you live and learn. while i still feel any 5sfe work is work in vain (unless turboed/hybrid) i look foward to your build and commend your dedication.

[Creeps228]

You telling me that 2jz rods are the same length and the same crank diameters???

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

2JZ rods share the same big end bore diameter of 2.166". Big end overall thickness is 1.055" for the 5SFE and 1.020" for the 2JZ. Pin diameters are the same at .866". Center to center length for 5SFE rod = 5.433"; 2JZ = 5.59" I like the slightly longer rod for a better rod ratio for safer higher RPMS and I'm getting custom pistons anyway

Porsche 924 rods are a little better - it's a lot easier to slightly reduce clearances than to add to them - I may go with the Porsche rods since they are 5.67" center to center

Check this site out if you are rebuilding a motor and plan to Frankenstein some internals!

http://www.solomiata.com/rods.html

[RichieRichJP]

Buddy, you're pissing away a lot of money going the N/A route. One guy did this to his MR2 and got ~179hp out of his engine with extensive work. I'll have to find that link again, but it was VERY unimpressive. A lot of money, lack of any gain whatsoever.
I really don't see the logic going with custom 2JZ rods when there are already other options available on this motor. If you want a destroked 5sfe, use a 3S crank and go 2.1L 5SGE from there. I just don't see any benefit with a custom rod that's worthwhile at all.
Plus you mentioned 9500rpms, but saying that you won't need to go that high, but you're obviously laying it out there like its possible. You'll float valves, especially on a 5SFE head and on top of that, the e153 tranmission (which I know is not your's, but is better) can only hold 8500rpms.
Not trying to bash your project, I just want to give you a little insight as to what you're getting yourself in to. Take what I said or leave it.

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

I know there are MANY other avenues I could take on this project but I would like to take the road less travelled on this one. I think the guy you are referring to is mrturrari on the IMOC website, and him and I have exhanged much info on the subject of N/A 5SFE building. Kinda limited by $$$ these days that's why it's such a slow process

I have the valvetrain to handle that kind of RPMs - and really wasn't sure about the tranny's limits but thanks for posting that info - something else I will have to look into. Not really in any hurry to get this finshed - and also believe that 215HP is not out of the question - just a matter of using the right parts in the right places, nothing else.

And if I get everything together and it doesn't produce those kind of numbers - at least I still have a blueprinted reliable motor with a little more pep than stock to drive. With the weight reduction current and planned it will still fill the billet as an A-B blaster!

[Creeps228]

Have you gotten into finding how much valve clearance there is between 2jz rods on the 5sfe crank?

I know the 5S is a non-interference motor, much how valve clearance we have I don't know. Now if putting 2JZ rods in there, that will increase stroke from 3.58 in (90.93mm) to 3.6585 in (92.93mm) will it interfere with the valve openings?

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

Originally Posted by Creeps228

Have you gotten into finding how much valve clearance there is between 2jz rods on the 5sfe crank?

I know the 5S is a non-interference motor, much how valve clearance we have I don't know. Now if putting 2JZ rods in there, that will increase stroke from 3.58 in (90.93mm) to 3.6585 in (92.93mm) will it interfere with the valve openings?

Ummm...no, changing to 2JZ rods will not affect your stroke - it will affect the rod ratio - that's why Im getting custom pistons that will address all of the bottom end issues.

Honestly, I may just hit the easy button on this and stay with 5SFE stock-sized rods with ARP 3/8" bolts. That way one of the weak spots of the 5S motor is addressed and I can rev higher w/o worrying about an unwanted vent hole in the block. Should have kept it simple in the beginning but again, live and learn

[RichieRichJP]

A project like this isn't really worth the time or money to get custom one-off parts. I say make the best as to what is available (you screw up one custom rod or piston, goodluck getting a cheap and readily avail. replacement), improve Mr. Turrari's setup and go from there. If you have the money to piss away, better off doing it by making improvements.
Why not try a 2.4L 5SGE? You said you wanted unique - no one has done that yet... I forgot, with custom high comp pistons.

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

OK Rich, since I'm at a crossroads I can entertain some different ideas...what's involved in the 2.4L 5SGE setup? I'm guessing a longer stroke since you can't really bore out a 5SFE that much...

[Mister_Perkins]

damn bud, that sucks

So your thinking of oversizing the 5/16" hole on the 5s connecting rods to accept the 3/8" ARP rod bolts?

ARP Does offer custom rod bolts in 5/16" That will accommodate higher revving. I contacted them, and they said they could do custom rod bolts but you have to call them

[RichieRichJP]

Originally Posted by N/A Camry Sleeper

OK Rich, since I'm at a crossroads I can entertain some different ideas...what's involved in the 2.4L 5SGE setup? I'm guessing a longer stroke since you can't really bore out a 5SFE that much...

There's only 2 or 3 2.4L setups out there and I don't know the extent of the work required.
I believe its a 88mm bore with (custom?) rods that sit at a different angle and a special bore because of it. ATS said they can do it, but it'd cost a lot (they never threw figures out for me on it) and I think you might want to contact Matt at Dedicated Motorsports in Dallas on this one. I think he built one for his car.

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

Originally Posted by Mister_Perkins

damn bud, that sucks

So your thinking of oversizing the 5/16" hole on the 5s connecting rods to accept the 3/8" ARP rod bolts?

ARP Does offer custom rod bolts in 5/16" That will accommodate higher revving. I contacted them, and they said they could do custom rod bolts but you have to call them

No, probably go with aftermarket 5SFE rods sold by Eagle which come with 3/8" ARP rods. 5/16th is just a bit small even if it is a special alloy. Also the aftermarket rods weigh ~555g which is a big improvement over 680g stock

@ Rich

That sounds a little ambitious and expensive, at this point I need to MOVE FORWARD on this build and not aim so high in the modification department. 2.2L is a good compromise between power and economy - the 2.1L doesn't sound like a bad idea - still haven't decided fully on which N/A route to take though...

[reluctantmechanic]

N/A, I'd like to give a little OT perspective on this mistake....the term "screwed the pooch" was used in one of my all time favorite books "The Right Stuff"...It refers to when Gus Grissom made the biggest mistake of his life....he lost his cool, and prematurely ejected from his capsule, causing it to sink.

This cost the US millions of dollars, lost untold research, and put us a step back in the race to the moon. It was a pretty major Uck fup.

I don't see you as screwing the pooch on this one - rather, I see you working towards a goal, and getting screwed. Not really your mistake...and in the grand scheme of things, no one died, got hurt, or even bruised....(well, except for maybe your wallet!!!).

Anyways, love reading about your progress, and I hope this doesn't stop you from future mods.

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

Originally Posted by reluctantmechanic

N/A, I'd like to give a little OT perspective on this mistake....the term "screwed the pooch" was used in one of my all time favorite books "The Right Stuff"...It refers to when Gus Grissom made the biggest mistake of his life....he lost his cool, and prematurely ejected from his capsule, causing it to sink.

This cost the US millions of dollars, lost untold research, and put us a step back in the race to the moon. It was a pretty major Uck fup.

I don't see you as screwing the pooch on this one - rather, I see you working towards a goal, and getting screwed. Not really your mistake...and in the grand scheme of things, no one died, got hurt, or even bruised....(well, except for maybe your wallet!!!).

Anyways, love reading about your progress, and I hope this doesn't stop you from future mods.

LMAO but I see your point...

Defintely a step back overall in the build progress. Evaluating different approaches now - but NOT AT ALL deterred from the build. Will be posting results whichever way I decide to go here in time