3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
1998 Strut and Suspension repair/tune-up questions
1998 Camry V6 Gen4
OK, after reading a couple dozen threads on the Gen 3 and 4 suspensions I have some questions.
a)Do the rear bearings/mounts tend to go bad like the fronts?
b)One post says there are no bearings on the rear struts; is this correct? Is the bearing different than the mount?
c)One thread says on some models the cartridges aren't replaceable. Is this true for 4Gen Camrys?
d)Looks like, with all the extra mounts and parts needed, the quick-mount type are DIY cheaper?
e)If I don't get the quick-mount type, which extra parts do I need (i.e. besides the "mounts" are there rubber bushings, etc.)?
f)I want something slightly better than OEM (not Koni or Bilstein stiff or anything real stiff or expensive). What are the brands that people here like?
e)If I find I have worn bushings on the rear sway/linkages, does it make it way easier to fix this at the same time or can it be done seperately just as easy?
f)Does a 6-cyl require different shocks than the 4-cyl?
g)I do not have an Autozone or Pep Boys nearby. What's a good place online that people here like?
(I made a new thread rather than ask this at the bottom of 6 different existing threads and due to some contradictory info. Thx for help - lots of knowledge here - will go with your recommendations)
Last edited by Just Out of Reach; 12-24-2010 at 11:53 PM.
Reason: forgot to add one question
OK, after reading a couple dozen threads on the Gen 3 and 4 suspensions I have some questions.
a)Do the rear bearings/mounts tend to go bad like the fronts? In my experience, they fronts tend to wear out faster.
b)One post says there are no bearings on the rear struts; is this correct? Is the bearing different than the mount? It varies by generation AND front to rear. I think the gen 4s (97-01) DO NOT have bearings in the rear mounts.
c)One thread says on some models the cartridges aren't replaceable. Is this true for 4Gen Camrys? True for 3rd gens (92-96). Gen 4s are all the same FOR SURE. I think they're all serviceable struts.
d)Looks like, with all the extra mounts and parts needed, the quick-mount type are DIY cheaper? It comes out to about the same cost. It just depends on what you like. Do you want everything to feel as it would from the factory? or would you prefer something sportier?
e)If I don't get the quick-mount type, which extra parts do I need (i.e. besides the "mounts" are there rubber bushings, etc.)? These pictures are for a 1995 Camry, but it's just to give you a visual idea of the little bits involved.
f)I want something slightly better than OEM (not Koni or Bilstein stiff or anything real stiff or expensive). What are the brands that people here like? Slighty stiffer shocks? KYB. The best compromise between performance stiffness and every day comfort? Tokico. Springs is another story brand wise.
e)If I find I have worn bushings on the rear sway/linkages, does it make it way easier to fix this at the same time or can it be done seperately just as easy? The OEM sway bar linkages can be annoying to get off. I always tell people to use Moog OEM replacements regardless if they're modding their car or not. The bushings and linkages are okay to get to. I'd say do it at the same time if you can. If not, no biggie. Take a look at those pictures above.
f)Does a 6-cyl require different shocks than the 4-cyl? I THINK only the springs are different when dealing with OEM parts. Some aftermarker stuff is interchangeable between the V6 and I4.
g)I do not have an Autozone or Pep Boys nearby. What's a good place online that people here like? Rockauto.com. And check out our site vendors too. There's a guy at a Toyota dealer that offering something liek 20-30% off list prices on OEM parts here.
(I made a new thread rather than ask this at the bottom of 6 different existing threads and due to some contradictory info. Thx for help - lots of knowledge here - will go with your recommendations) Fine by me.
Merry Christmas and good luck! Ask questions if you have 'em.
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The Following User Says Thank You to LynchburgCSI For This Useful Post:
If you want something closer to OEM, then get the KYB Strut Plus assembly. KYB is the OEM for Toyota, however some think their struts are a bit on the harsh side (making you feel all the lane markers). The other is the Monroe Quick Strut. Some members used these and seem to like them. Autozone may be able to get you Gabriel Ready Mounts. But Gabriel Ultras these days are softer than before and is more like a typical American ride. Soaks up road irregularities well.
Even buying just the mount and the strut you'll be very close to the price of an assembly. I'd say just go with the all-new assemblies.
Gabriel and Monroes have lifetime warranties often with coupon deals and rebates. KYB doesn't warranty against normal wear and tear. Just pick one that suits your riding style and not worry with all the mixing and matching.
You will also need a four-wheel alignment after that.
Monroe/KYB assemblies: check rockauto.com
Garbriel: check Autozone web site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Out of Reach
1998 Camry V6 Gen4
OK, after reading a couple dozen threads on the Gen 3 and 4 suspensions I have some questions.
a)Do the rear bearings/mounts tend to go bad like the fronts?
b)One post says there are no bearings on the rear struts; is this correct? Is the bearing different than the mount?
c)One thread says on some models the cartridges aren't replaceable. Is this true for 4Gen Camrys?
d)Looks like, with all the extra mounts and parts needed, the quick-mount type are DIY cheaper?
e)If I don't get the quick-mount type, which extra parts do I need (i.e. besides the "mounts" are there rubber bushings, etc.)?
f)I want something slightly better than OEM (not Koni or Bilstein stiff or anything real stiff or expensive). What are the brands that people here like?
e)If I find I have worn bushings on the rear sway/linkages, does it make it way easier to fix this at the same time or can it be done seperately just as easy?
f)Does a 6-cyl require different shocks than the 4-cyl?
g)I do not have an Autozone or Pep Boys nearby. What's a good place online that people here like?
(I made a new thread rather than ask this at the bottom of 6 different existing threads and due to some contradictory info. Thx for help - lots of knowledge here - will go with your recommendations)
The Following User Says Thank You to JohnGD For This Useful Post:
I priced parts and inserts/mounts/bearings cost half of what MonroeQuick struts cost (not counting having to rent a spring compressor or hire that part of the surgery).
I crawled around the vehicle listening while my wife drove and it sounds like I have rattles in my rear mounts (the front passenger has rattled almost since new). Another thread explains that the rubber part compresses on all these, causing the rattle as per the TOY Service Bulletin. [I went to a CArQuest and the guy said they didn't have any rubber replacement parts because they never go bad - ha ha .] Anyway, I can't tell which part this. (One store told me it was part of the mount itself - they only show the spring seats separately).
2A)Do I just order the mount?
I can't find a rattle in my other rear suspension parts (sways/links) while hand inspecting - visual looks okay.
Note that the Monroe brands of Quickstruts have a different spring for the V6 than the 4-cyl. The KYB and Gabriel DO NOT, listing the same assemble for both models. I called Monroe and they said that the 4-cyl springs would definitely sag.
2B) Since the V6 has heavier springs, wouldn't the KYB and Gabriels sag?
2C)The TOY guy with the OEM discounts - how do I search for that?
Last edited by Just Out of Reach; 12-30-2010 at 04:20 PM.
Reason: clarification
The problem is Toyota using cheap rear springs for Gen 4 I4s that should never be on there in the first place. If concerned, just use another brand or buy parts and assemble. The rear springs are much easier to compress than the front for obvious reasons.
If assembling your own I'd recommend: new rear strut, new rear mount, new lower spring seat. *IF* the rear spring isn't rusting. You can reuse the strut bumper in most cases. IMO, get get Monroe 271681/680 and be done with it, or KYB SR4036/35 for the Asian ride. You can see that V6 parts are more expensive than I4.
KYB SR4032 and SR4031 front assemblies are $187.79 and 194.79 on rockauto. KYB SR4036 and SR4035 rears are $199.79 each.
Monroe front QuickStruts 271678 and 271679 are $170.79 each. Rear 271681 and 271680 are $161.79 each.
Gabriel Ultra ReadyMount assemblies, front G56931/930 are $214.99 each. Rear G56933/932 are $178.99 each on Autozone.com. These clearly can't beat the typical online prices at rockauto.
(double check the above part numbers for 98 Camry V6).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Out of Reach
wow, good answers; jaw met floor
I crawled around the vehicle listening while my wife drove and it sounds like I have rattles in my rear mounts (the front passenger has rattled almost since new - I'm original owner). Another thread says the rubber part compresses on all these, causing the rattle as per the TOY Service Bulletin. [I went to a CArQuest and the guy said they didn't have any rubber replacement parts because they never go bad* - ha ha .] Anyway, I can't tell which part this is in the diagram above. (One store told me it was part of the mount itself - they only show the spring seats separately). I want to make sure I get the right part.
2A)Do I just order the mount?
I priced parts at stores in my area and inserts/mounts/bearings cost about half of what MonroeQuick struts cost (not counting having to rent a spring compressor or hire that part of the surgery). Except for one store which has a Monroe Economatic Quickstrut for the fronts. It doesn't look like vendors on this website have these for this model. They are $131.99. (KYBs in my area cost $105 for the inserts plus $65 for the mounts; $299 each for quickstrut-type)
The other brands of quickstruts cost as much as 3 times the individual parts, so I'm planning to go with Quicks on the front but not on the rear. The problem is, I don't want to get into the surgery and find parts I need to replace versus buying too much.
2B)Sounds like I need (on the rears) just the inserts, and the mounts?
2C)Also, the blow-up diagram above doesn't show the bearing whereas pictures at the store have a separate bearing for this model - safe to assume the diagram, being from 95, rather than 98 is just not showing it?
I can't find a rattle in my other rear suspension parts (sways/links) while hand inspecting - visual looks okay.
The Monroe brands of Quickstruts have a different spring for the V6. The KYB and Gabriel DO NOT, which makes me think they might come with flimsy springs...
The TOY guy with the OEM discounts - how do I search for that?
This is one of the operations with lots of math and getting parts from different vendors. D'oh!
*beside arguing about that, the guy said the 4-cyl was 2.2 and the 6 was a 2.5 and that his catalog was never wrong - makes me think the parts aren't going to fit from them
EDIT::
Okay, I just leaned that Monroe suggests the Econo-matic Quick Assembly for the 4-cyl, so a more important question is:
2D) Are the front springs different on the 6 cyl? (if so I won't be getting the economatics)
The Following User Says Thank You to JohnGD For This Useful Post:
*If* KYB and Gabriel use V6 springs for the rear then you're fine. You can try to double check with them. But IMO I4 rear springs should never be used in the first place, so there shouldn't be 2 different rear part numbers IMO. Some owners with sagging rear I4 springs actually got Toyota to put V6 springs on there from what I read. Just wait til you see what cost cutting goes on with clunking Gen5+ Camrys.
Both Gabriel and KYB list the same part number for both the I4 and V6 on the full assemblies.
So, you're saying that it might indicate that the Gabriels and KYBs use the heavier springs for both I4s and V6s, correct? I didn't think of that but it makes sense. Until I found out for sure though, I'd steer away from the KYB or Gabriel assemblies.
Either way the cost of preassembles is high. The best price config I've found is on the RockAuto site which brings all the parts in for $343 versus $721 for the assemblies. With the cost savings I can drop them at a garage and have them spin them together for me if I can't find a spring compressor loaner.
I rented a compressor once and it was very slowwww. Halfway through the spring went BOINNNG and tilted to one side and the whole thing got jammed and had to go to a shop. Too much hassle. Since then I find a garage that will compress them and spin them up for me for a few bucks.
I've never gotten an alignment after doing struts on a TOY because it never occured to me that things would be out of alignment afterward. Sounds like things might be different on a Gen4 Camry then and I should book an appt on the rack?
Didn't know that about the Gen5. Sounds like, if I update in the future, I should get a later gen, eh?
thanks - good stuff
edit:: Is there are real ride difference between MonroeMatic and Sensatrac anyway?
Last edited by Just Out of Reach; 12-30-2010 at 08:31 PM.
Reason: updated
Right, the responsible thing for suspension parts makers is to use V6 instead of I4 rear springs. Unless you got confirmation in writing I agree to steer away. My point was that I4 rear springs shouldn't even exist for these.
The typical compressors (some call death-sticks) aren't the greatest. I believe places like Pep Boys do compressions for about $25/corner. Not sure about current prices. But I'm sure there are cheaper places.
Springs always sag. Therefore even on a new car it's advisable to do an alignment check after about 15K miles. Another, not recommended and more expensive way, is to wait until unusual tire wear patterns show up. The rear toes don't seem to change much. It seems the front toes do go off. I'd have it checked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Out of Reach
Both Gabriel and KYB list the same part number for both the I4 and V6 on the full assemblies.
So, you're saying that it might indicate that the Gabriels and KYBs use the heavier springs for both I4s and V6s, correct? I didn't think of that but it makes sense. Until I found out for sure though, I'd steer away from the KYB or Gabriel assemblies.
Either way the cost of preassembles is high. The best price config I've found is on the RockAuto site which brings all the parts in for $343 versus $721 for the assemblies. With the cost savings I can drop them at a garage and have them spin them together for me if I can't find a spring compressor loaner.
I rented a compressor once and it was very slowwww. Halfway through the spring went BOINNNG and tilted to one side and the whole thing got jammed and had to go to a shop. Too much hassle. Since then I find a garage that will compress them and spin them up for me for a few bucks.
I've never gotten an alignment after doing struts on a TOY because it never occured to me that things would be out of alignment afterward. Sounds like things might be different on a Gen4 Camry then and I should book an appt on the rack?
Didn't know that about the Gen5. Sounds like, if I update in the future, I should get a later gen, eh?
thanks - good stuff
edit:: Is there are real ride difference between MonroeMatic and Sensatrac anyway?
The Following User Says Thank You to JohnGD For This Useful Post:
I couldn't really figure out if there was a ride difference between the MonroeMatic and Sensatrac so it was down to Monroe vs KYB and I went with MonroeMatic, using the site recommended here (RockAuto).
Note: They were helpful on the phone and it turned out the missing inventory parts were a mistake in the online catalog (which showed the correct mounts under the wrong make/model). I figure this out by crosschecking with the Monroe site.
This vehicle had an alignment check with new tires 10k ago. At that time there was no funny wear on the old tires and no alignment adjustments were needed (it had been checked once before and adjusted). Should I check it again this soon?
While I'm at it, this car has original spark plugs at almost 100k. Is that okay? Because I don't have the tool I've never pulled them.
Last edited by Just Out of Reach; 01-02-2011 at 05:18 PM.
Reason: grammar
yeah, I know, officially the that small fuel filter is somehow considered a lifetime filter
... well, I don't know what the projected lifespan of camry is on the designers desk, but it must be real short then
If you love your car, then include the fuel filter in minor tune up every few years, let's say at least as often as you change the timing belt.
old fuel filters tend to send dirt particles down the stream and make your fuel injectors look like an old shower sprayer ... that doesn't help with performance at all.
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Did you get individual struts or assemblies with SensaTracs? SensaTrac is the better one. The MonroeMatic is the el cheapo. SensaTrac is the right choice unless you're selling the car. But personally I prefer the Gabriel Ultra.
As said, alignment protects your investment in the tires. Tires are getting spendy these days. The front struts could come with a tag telling you to get an alignment, no?
Look up on NGK's website. Go with Iridium-IX, or if you *really* have to save a few bucks, with the G-Power and it's thin center electrode. They're pre-gapped at 1.1mm. Do not regap and risk damaging the thin electrode.
There are plenty of cheap socket sets like the following $9.99, on sale for even cheaper. The holidays was a good time to pick up a 106 or 154 piece Craftsman mechanics tool set at a discount, but that's for next year: http://www.harborfreight.com/52-piec...set-35338.html
Borrow a torque wrench at Autozone (free loaner program) or like most of us do, just buy one from Harbor Freight 3/8"-drive ~$20 these days (used to be ~$12, must be inflation ).
I couldn't really figure out if there was a ride difference between the MonroeMatic and Sensatrac so it was down to Monroe vs KYB and I went with MonroeMatic, using the site recommended here (RockAuto).
Note: They were helpful on the phone and it turned out the missing inventory parts were a mistake in the online catalog (which showed the correct mounts under the wrong make/model). I figure this out by crosschecking with the Monroe site.
This vehicle had an alignment check with new tires 10k ago. At that time there was no funny wear on the old tires and no alignment adjustments were needed (it had been checked once before and adjusted). Should I check it again this soon?
While I'm at it, this car has original spark plugs at almost 100k. Is that okay? Because I don't have the tool I've never pulled them.
Last edited by JohnGD; 01-02-2011 at 09:18 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to JohnGD For This Useful Post:
I have a follow-up to this about the sway bar bushings, what signs/symptoms are there which would indicate that you need to replace them? I replaced all four corners with the Monroe Quick struts about 4 weeks ago on my 99 with 135k. Was waiting on the alignment since it is ready for new tires anyway. Thought as PM it wouldn't be a bad idea also to replace the sway bar bushings all the way around.
If they're not cracked I'd just leave them. Unless you're going WhiteLine sway bars and want to add urethane bushings.
I really don't think you'll feel the difference unless the old set is bad. And there is a chance the new set might squeak. Just my opinion anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1811
I have a follow-up to this about the sway bar bushings, what signs/symptoms are there which would indicate that you need to replace them? I replaced all four corners with the Monroe Quick struts about 4 weeks ago on my 99 with 135k. Was waiting on the alignment since it is ready for new tires anyway. Thought as PM it wouldn't be a bad idea also to replace the sway bar bushings all the way around.
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