Head Gasket or NOT?? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

mpmiller37 · 12-30-2010, 09:46 AM

I have a shop telling me I should replace the head gasket because there is some coolant seepage coming from the gasket on the front side of the engine, fairly minimal IMO. Another shop pressure tests the vehicle and says it's fine, don't need to replace the head gasket. The first guys says, I don't care what the pressure test says and shows me a TSB from Toyota dated July 10 98, titled 5S-FE Coolant Leak and says that Toyota had problems with that head gasket and I should replace it. I need Timing belt service anyway including pump and seals and he gave me a price of $1247 for the whole job (head gasket and all) versus the $700 - $800 it would cost to do a complete timing belt service. Any experience with this out there?

97 Camry 110k miles in good condition, just paid $4400 for it used in May 2010. It's leaking oil from a cam plug also which is why I took it in. I suspected the oil looked a bit reddish brownish last time I changed it, but wasn't sure if this was normal or not. Isn't a pressure test a sure test??

Thanks,
Mike

***Mister_Perkins*** · 12-30-2010, 09:52 AM

If they ran a leakdown test and your coolant wasn't bubbling your head gasket isn't bad. When they ran a pressure test i'm assuming they ran a compression test which just tests how much pressure each cylinder is creating from the rings. If your head gasket has a pinhole leak a compression test may not indicate a blown head gasket. One thing to try yourself to confirm a blown head gasket is pull your oil cap for one and check to see if it looks milky (whitish brownish color). If not, pull all the spark plugs. a blow head gasket will make your plugs look very clean.

One for sure indication of a blown head gasket would be your car is blowing white smoke all the time, and the smoke itself has a sweet smell to it. (Like antifreeze).

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Why don't you do the timing belt yourself and save $500 - $600.00 ?

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Edit:

Heres an example of coolant and oil mixing and what it looks like :

Also, another confirmation of a BHG would be to have a hydrocarbon test done on the vehicle. Runs about $40.00 and that will 100% let you know

carsrus · 12-30-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpmiller37

I have a shop telling me I should replace the head gasket because there is some coolant seepage coming from the gasket on the front side of the engine, fairly minimal IMO.

I'll bet you its leaking from the waterpump housing seal. Its the same spot on the passenger side and can be easily mistaken.

The TSB or whatever he showed you is bs. These headgaskets RARELY fail. Toyota would have no reason to issue a tsb.

If no coolant in the oil or steam coming out the exhaust your fine. Headgaskets rarely leak externally. I would get a different mechanic. $800 for a full timing belt job is robbery, at least for the 4cyl.

***Mister_Perkins*** · 12-30-2010, 10:08 AM

I agree too. those estimates seem very high

jtex2717 · 12-30-2010, 10:13 AM

Step 1. Get tools....

Step 2. DIY the H/G and the Waterpump & Timing belt

Step 3. ...Call it good.

There are way TOO MANY write ups on these parts on here to NOT be able to do this yourself.

My grandma can follow the write-ups on here and perform this maintenance.

Good luck....but if you dont DIY dont go w/ either one of these guys...way too high!

Im sure there is a TN member near BMORE that will help you take care of this....

mpmiller37 · 12-30-2010, 10:32 AM

Though I consider myself fairly mechanically competent, I've never been behind a timing cover nor have I ever replaced seals. I do plugs, brakes, general maintenance, and recently pulled the fuel pump. I've gotten similar prices from many shops all in the $700-800 range for the timing belt service to include: water pump, all seals, pulleys, etc. I really only need the service because of oil leaking from under the cover, so I suspect its one of those seals. Is it fairly easy to replace all those seals, including the o-ring/seal associated with the oil pump? Would it take a newb more than a day?

mpmiller37 · 12-30-2010, 10:35 AM

The coolant seepage is unmistakable from where it is coming from, its right in the front, right in the middle of engine below the metal exhaust shield, and the seepage is right where the black part of the block meets the upper part. There is a lot of dried up red residue there from this.

jtex2717 · 12-30-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpmiller37

Though I consider myself fairly mechanically competent, I've never been behind a timing cover nor have I ever replaced seals. I do plugs, brakes, general maintenance, and recently pulled the fuel pump. I've gotten similar prices from many shops all in the $700-800 range for the timing belt service to include: water pump, all seals, pulleys, etc. I really only need the service because of oil leaking from under the cover, so I suspect its one of those seals. Is it fairly easy to replace all those seals, including the o-ring/seal associated with the oil pump? Would it take a newb more than a day?

Seals are very easy to replace...esp if you take your time...for a noob I would say give yourself a whole weekend to do this...just so you make sure you do everything right...

***Mister_Perkins*** · 12-30-2010, 10:53 AM

get a hydrocarbon test done before going further

mpmiller37 · 12-30-2010, 01:26 PM

Do most shops do a hydrocarbon test? Wondering where to get it done. The mechanic who recommended the head gasket replacement called me today. He said that if there is external coolant seepage at the gasket then he doesn't need to run any tests, you need a new gasket. Thought today after driving it a while I see no additional seepage, just dried/burnt remains.

There is no milky colored oil around the oil cap. Maybe I'll pull a plug or 2 this weekend.

***Mister_Perkins*** · 12-30-2010, 01:34 PM

most reputable shops can perform a hydrocarbon test. One thing you could try to do is start the car up, and pull the radiator cap off and let the vehicle run for a while. If compression is pushing past the gasket you may get bubbles pushing into the radiator.

***Mister_Perkins*** · 12-30-2010, 01:39 PM

You can actually purchase a test kit from napa and do the test yourself too.

Napa Part Number : 700-1006

or

Snap-On GDCT16 Combustion Leak Tester

carsrus · 12-30-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpmiller37

Do most shops do a hydrocarbon test? Wondering where to get it done. The mechanic who recommended the head gasket replacement called me today. He said that if there is external coolant seepage at the gasket then he doesn't need to run any tests, you need a new gasket. Thought today after driving it a while I see no additional seepage, just dried/burnt remains.

There is no milky colored oil around the oil cap. Maybe I'll pull a plug or 2 this weekend.

I think hes trying to take you for a ride. Clean that whole area up and see exactly where the leakage is coming from.

Theres a coolant pipe that goes right in that area and I wouldent be surprised if its leaking. The chance of a headgasket leaking externally is slim.

But if it is leaking externally you probally wont have coolant in the oil or exhaust gases in the coolant.

camry6 · 12-30-2010, 03:22 PM

"But if it is leaking externally you probally wont have coolant in the oil or exhaust gases in the coolant."-carsrus.

Diddo!

***JohnGD*** · 12-30-2010, 04:35 PM

Toyota has problems with composite head gaskets seeping coolant. These head gaskets are kinda junk. I don't know when Toyota started using the better multi-layer steel (MLS) on there.

If the MLS is seeping then I wonder if the previous owner abused the engine. If the head is pulled then both the cylinder head and block should be checked for flatness and surface condition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpmiller37

I have a shop telling me I should replace the head gasket because there is some coolant seepage coming from the gasket on the front side of the engine, fairly minimal IMO. Another shop pressure tests the vehicle and says it's fine, don't need to replace the head gasket. The first guys says, I don't care what the pressure test says and shows me a TSB from Toyota dated July 10 98, titled 5S-FE Coolant Leak and says that Toyota had problems with that head gasket and I should replace it. I need Timing belt service anyway including pump and seals and he gave me a price of $1247 for the whole job (head gasket and all) versus the $700 - $800 it would cost to do a complete timing belt service. Any experience with this out there?

97 Camry 110k miles in good condition, just paid $4400 for it used in May 2010. It's leaking oil from a cam plug also which is why I took it in. I suspected the oil looked a bit reddish brownish last time I changed it, but wasn't sure if this was normal or not. Isn't a pressure test a sure test??

Thanks,
Mike