Terrible clatter under timing belt cover...HELP

[az-yota]

Hi all,
I have a helluva clatter coming from under the plastic timing belt cover on my 2000 CE 4cyl with 149K. It's been doing this for at least 50K miles or so and is much worse when the engine is cold. The rattle goes completely away as I rev the RPMs up (it only does it at idle to maybe 1200 RPMs). I recently had a new timing belt and water pump installed and I figured that would fix the problem but it seemed to make absolutely NO difference.

What else could it be under there making this rattle or clatter sound and is it an easy fix? I bought this car with 31K on the clock 6 years ago, it had been totaled out but I have NEVER had one issue with this car EVER!!!.

[dave1811]

Did they replace the idler bearing and tensioner bearing when they did the TB/WP job? Also, what brand water pump did they put in, AISIN? Just did this job last weekend on my 99 with 165K miles and I thought my waterpump was bad when it first started up because of the rattle. However, on mine, when I pushed the TB down, it went down maybe 4 inches or more and I think it was hitting the TB cover, and not the WP, causing the noise. I can't hear any bearing noise on my old water pump (Aisin also) but maybe I can't at lower speeds turning it off the car by hand. I am trying to think what other thing would cause noise from that area but am a little stumped myself.

Dave

[az-yota]

Originally Posted by dave1811

Did they replace the idler bearing and tensioner bearing when they did the TB/WP job? Also, what brand water pump did they put in, AISIN? Just did this job last weekend on my 99 with 165K miles and I thought my waterpump was bad when it first started up because of the rattle. However, on mine, when I pushed the TB down, it went down maybe 4 inches or more and I think it was hitting the TB cover, and not the WP, causing the noise. I can't hear any bearing noise on my old water pump (Aisin also) but maybe I can't at lower speeds turning it off the car by hand. I am trying to think what other thing would cause noise from that area but am a little stumped myself.

Dave

They claim to have changed the "Pulley" what ever that means. I don't know what brand pump they used.

[eyeball96]

I had the same noise on a 96 5sfe, at 59,000 miles. I complained to the dealership, and they replaced the timing belt, water pump and Tensioner for free...it was the TB Tensioner making the racket. Seems there was a TSB about the issue.

[az-yota]

Does anyone know how much this tensioner costs? Could I do this myself? I do own a screwdriver set.

[eyeball96]

Originally Posted by az-yota

Does anyone know how much this tensioner costs? Could I do this myself? I do own a screwdriver set.

Man I can't, I'm not a mechanic, and too old to attempt shit like that any longer. I just pay my mechanic to do it.
The tensioner should of been changed with the TB and water pump. From my understanding its all included in the Timing belt kit....well a least it was in my sons CRV TB kit.

I'm sure someone will chime in here shortly and help ya out.

[Mister_Perkins]

You'll need a bit more than a screw driver set.

[az-yota]

Actually I have a full set of tools I was just being facetious. I dug out my invoice from the repair shop and they charged me $206.26 for the "NBH timing component kit & TFW water pump". All of the kits I found online in that price range included new tensioner pulley and new idler pulley along with seals and gaskets. From the info I have so far I have deduced the following conclusions in order of probable likelyhood from most likely to least likely.

1) Repair shop replaced only water pump and timing belt but charged me for the price of a complete timing component kit.

2) The problem is not related to any timing or drive components where the noise is coming from.

3) Repair shop actually replaced tensioner and idler but by some astronomically rare coincidence new components make exactly the same clattering sound as old parts did.

4) I am a blathering idiotic moron who only imagines goofy mechanical sounds that do not in fact actually exist.

On another note the total repair bill came to $654.34. I noticed they charged me $18.36 for "shop supplies". Is this common practice? If so is the amount in line?

[zythr]

[QUOTE=az-yota;3453752

On another note the total repair bill came to $654.34. I noticed they charged me $18.36 for "shop supplies". Is this common practice? If so is the amount in line?[/QUOTE]

Yes it is, in states where such charges are allowed. Amount sounds right. I believe it is a percentage of your bill. The charges covers taxes, utilities, maintenance of the shop. In other words it's another way for a shop to make a profit.

[az-yota]

Yes it is, in states where such charges are allowed. Amount sounds right. I believe it is a percentage of your bill. The charges covers taxes, utilities, maintenance of the shop. In other words it's another way for a shop to make a profit.

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Why don't they just include that in the shop rate?

[dz63]

Originally Posted by az-yota

Hi all,
I have a helluva clatter coming from under the plastic timing belt cover on my 2000 CE 4cyl with 149K. It's been doing this for at least 50K miles or so and is much worse when the engine is cold. The rattle goes completely away as I rev the RPMs up (it only does it at idle to maybe 1200 RPMs). I recently had a new timing belt and water pump installed and I figured that would fix the problem but it seemed to make absolutely NO difference.

What else could it be under there making this rattle or clatter sound and is it an easy fix? I bought this car with 31K on the clock 6 years ago, it had been totaled out but I have NEVER had one issue with this car EVER!!!.

I suspect that your timing belt needs to be tightened a bit. It could be be flapping and hitting the timing belt cover. Mine did this only when it was cold. There is a spring on the tensioner that is used to set the correct belt tension when a new belt is installed. Once the correct tension is set, the tensioner is locked in place by tightening a bolt. It is possible that the belt may not have been properly tensioned when the belt was replaced.

[zythr]

Originally Posted by az-yota

Yes it is, in states where such charges are allowed. Amount sounds right. I believe it is a percentage of your bill. The charges covers taxes, utilities, maintenance of the shop. In other words it's another way for a shop to make a profit.

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Why don't they just include that in the shop rate?

I have no idea. My best guess is that the shop rate covers the pay of the technicians and this separate charge is for primarily for shop expenses. I think both rates used to be combined, but for some odd reason some states (except California and New York) allowed repair shops to start this practice.

[JohnGD]

Shop prices are always more expensive. They even tag on a profit for the parts. I think the most probable cause is improperly tensioned timing belt as already said.

If they got you a "timing component kit" then you should have one new timing belt, one new idler pulley, AND one new tensioner pulley. For example timing component kits look like:
Gates $52.79 http://info.rockauto.com/Gates/1273632-295569.html
Dayco $54.79 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1306950

$206.26 is pretty steep IMO. You can find "OEM" timing kits on eBay that include all oil seals, a thermostat too for about $184 shipped. If you can do your own in the future you may even be able to do it better.

Originally Posted by az-yota

my invoice from the repair shop and they charged me $206.26 for the "NBH timing component kit & TFW water pump". All of the kits I found online in that price range included new tensioner pulley and new idler pulley along with seals and gaskets. From the info I have so far I have deduced the following conclusions in order of probable likelyhood from most likely to least likely.

1) Repair shop replaced only water pump and timing belt but charged me for the price of a complete timing component kit.

2) The problem is not related to any timing or drive components where the noise is coming from.

3) Repair shop actually replaced tensioner and idler but by some astronomically rare coincidence new components make exactly the same clattering sound as old parts did.

4) I am a blathering idiotic moron who only imagines goofy mechanical sounds that do not in fact actually exist.

On another note the total repair bill came to $654.34. I noticed they charged me $18.36 for "shop supplies". Is this common practice? If so is the amount in line?