96 Camry Wagon - head gasket going - how long?

[rstl99]

Hi all,
Almost at the end of the winter here in the Northeast, and my 96 Camry wagon (2.2L) is acting up.

Was running rough a few days ago, saw that the intake manifold hose was split at one end; took it off, cut off the split part and reattached, all was well.

Then I noticed the heater was taking about 10 minutes to kick in after starting the car (it's been cold here).

Took it to my mechanic today, thinking it was a thermostat failure. Looks like the coolant was very low, he filled it up and did a coolant pressure test, seemed to be ok. He saw some whitish smoke coming out the exhaust, and notices the engine is running a bit rough and missing. He figures the head gasket is going, and not much point in going further with diagnostics (ie. compression test). Given the age and mileage he doesn't recommend changing the HG (in case the bottom end may go soon after), nor replacing the engine.

I just went out to look at the oil filler cap and it's milky brown inside, which I gather is indicative of head gasket failing. The oil dipstick looks ok (not milky) so hopefully the issue hasn't got into the bottom end (yet). Didn't see any bubbling in the rad when I started up the engine.

Ok, so assuming the HG is going, my question is this: can I expect to be able to get a few more weeks out of it, just driving it to work and back (about an hour a day, no freeway)? If it can last until Spring, I can then take out my summer car from storage.

The car has about 230,000 kms on it, I've had it 3 years and maintained it well. This may be the time to let it go, before putting more money into it. Sad to send it to crusher...

Appreciate your thoughts and help. Thanks.

[fenixus]

so cooling system has no leaks and mechanic says it's the head gasket? quite surprising conclusion.

when was the last time you checked coolant level? one side of return tank is open to atmosphere, so this fluid tends to slowly evaporate, e.g. in hot Summer.

white smoke coming from exhaust means nothing at such low temperatures as below freezing.

do the compression test on cylinders. running rough at idle can be multitude of minor things (like lacking minor tuneup or a sticky IAC valve) and it rarely means the HG is bad.

clean the oil cap, drive it for a day and check again if milky residue returns. clear oil on dipstick is a good sign.

[rstl99]

Come to think of it, that DID strike me as kind of odd. I'll have to call him back tomorrow and clarify about the pressure test and its results. He did say there was no external leak, and they topped up the coolant which was apparently rather low. I probably haven't checked it since early in the winter or late fall, to be quite honest. But I would certainly have topped it up before winter, for sure.

If it was low enough to affect the heat coming into the cabin, sounds like it was pretty low indeed...

When he called me, he sounded pretty convinced that it was the HG, and that there was no point in him charging me another $50 to do a compression test. Now I wish I had asked him to go ahead and do it, so I would know for sure.

I went out and cleaned the filler cap, and will have a look at it at day's end tomorrow. I also topped up the coolant to the Full line, and check that tomorrow night.

I may take it back to him on Friday and ask him to remove and look at the plugs, and do the compression test. So I will know for sure.

On another note, anybody here have heard of something I just googled upon, called "heal-a-seal" (www.heal-a-seal.com)? snake oil or something worth trying, if it comes to that?

Thanks again!

[fenixus]

he should have removed the spark plugs when performing the cooling system pressure test. if there was an internal coolant leak (into cylinders) that would squirt out through the open spark plug hole(s).

I wouldn't give up yet on this car, HG is a possibility, but it's not confirmed.

I think another simple test would be to open the radiator cap (when car is cold), start it and have someone rev the engine a bit while you looking into the cap opening and see if coolant has any bubbles (exhaust gasses) in it.

[rstl99]

Thanks for the bubbling suggestion. I started it just earlier tonight and could not see any bubbling, but the engine was still warm from driving home. I'll try tomorrow morning.

The other thing the mechanic said (coming back to me now) that made him think HG was that the exhaust pipe looked "too clean" (no grime or soot), which to him indicated that there had been coolant or water vapour cleaning it out over the last little while.

I'll call him back tomorrow about the pressure test. Doesn't sound like he removed the spark plugs. If I'm not comfortable with what he says, I may take it to another independent japanese repair shop I know for a second opinion.

Thanks.

[fenixus]

yup, get a second opinion before deciding anything about this car yet. your mechanic's conclusions sound more like an opinion, but are unconfirmed.

[carsrus]

Take it for a second opinion. If they also say blown headgasket but watch the oil consistency and coolant level and keep on driving.

You could probally DIY a headgasket change for about 300$ or so, which includes new timing etc. Not that bad of a job.

[71Corolla]

A cooling system pressure test is valuable, but it will not necessarily tell you if the head gasket is bad because it may not introduce enough pressure into the system. Or the head gasket could be damaged between cylinders and not into the cooling jacket.

The best way is a leak down test, which is simply putting compressed air into each spark plug hole. If you have a bad head gasket, you'll hear air escaping, either into adjacent cylinders, or you'll see bubbles in the coolant. It's a very easy test to perform and only takes a few minutes. BTW, a milky residue on the filler cap is common due to moisture/condensation, it does not always indicate a problem. If your oil is not a gray or white-ish milky colour, you probably don't have coolant being pushed into the oil. Only way to tell for sure is to drain some oil and put it into a glass jar.

[rstl99]

Thanks for the suggestions and thoughts.
Car is getting a second opinion as we speak. Should hear the prognostic later today. I took it to my old mechanic, with whom I did business until I acquired the Camry 3 years ago. From that point, I went to the other place (who pronounced it was on its last miles) because they specialize in Hondas and Toyotas and I had heard good things about them. They were pretty quick in reaching the dire conclusion based on the limited facts they considered.

My old mechanic was more optimistic. He said that if the "check engine" light never came on, it's an indication that the engine was not seriously misfiring, and thinks it's possibly a small leak at this point. He'll run it through some checks. He said he also successfully used a product in a bottle (forget the name, something like "head gasket fix") in another client's car who had a similar problem, and that car is still driving around. This mechanic is old-school european and likes to nurse older cars to a longer life.

I'll report back on his findings and prognosis, in case this might help others with similar problems who might stumble upon this thread.

[fenixus]

there is chance your coolant leak is still external to engine, but contained to the Heater Core so you can't see the leak outside of car.

your old mechanic sounds like he should be able to take care of proper diagnosis. make him prove to you it's the HG bad and not something else giving similar symptoms.

[rstl99]

My old mechanic removed the spark plugs and saw that plug no. 4 showed signs of coolant entry (white deposit on the end). He said the car has a small head gasket leak issue, but that I need not think the car needs to be scrapped. He said it will be normal for some coolant to seep into cyl 4 due to coolant pressure when engine is shut down, which will cause 15-20 seconds of rough idle when re-started (until the coolant is burned off), then it smooths out. He said the oil does not presently show signs of contamination so just keep an eye on the dipstick. Also, to keep an eye on the coolant level and fill it up in the rad, not the overflow, leaving a bit of air space on top of the rad.

Finally, he put this product into the rad: Irontite All-Weather-Seal, which he's been informed by his supplier is very good for fixing cooling system leaks including small HG leaks.

http://www.irontite.com/

So bottom line, my car is definitely ok to drive and as long as I keep an eye on coolant and the oil doesn't get contaminated, it could go another 6 months, a year, or maybe more, especially if the irontite is as good as their site claims.

Definitely was worth getting a second opinion, and I will certainly go back to my old mechanic from now on, and avoid returning to that other shop who gave me the dire initial prognostic. Glad my Camry wagon can continue to serve me for the foreseeable future.

Hope this helps others having similar problem.

Cheers!

[fenixus]

at least you have things confirmed.

since leak is minor, just keep driving it. if you keep an eye on coolant level and oil condition (check weekly) it might be going like that for years ... until you decide what other ride to get

[tjdean01]

I had a problem with similar symptoms and it was the water pump. Different vehicle though.

[rstl99]

Originally Posted by fenixus

at least you have things confirmed.

since leak is minor, just keep driving it. if you keep an eye on coolant level and oil condition (check weekly) it might be going like that for years ... until you decide what other ride to get

Indeed. Thanks for your help and support.
Coincidentally, someone I was in touch with last year just emailed me to tell me that his deceased father's prized 92 Cressida is available should I be interested (pampered garage queen, only 50,000 miles on it). Problem is: it's at the other end of the country!