I think peak and valvoline offer something like that...

 

Any parts store should have an equivalent. Just make sure it lists 100% Toyota comparability (probably on their web site) Coolant has gone way up around here.

 

Any parts store should have an equivalent. Just make sure it lists 100% Toyota comparability (probably on their web site)

They ALL claim theirs is for Toyotas - even Prestone does.

What I found was PEAK Long Life.
The label says "Phosphate and Silicate Free" but doesn't mention borate?
Do people here think it's equivalent and able to mix with any of the red that gets left in the block after a couple drain-outs?

The reason I ask is because the Toyota Red apparently has high phosphates, which are used to corrosion-proof the aluminum whereas the PEAK is phosphate-free. Is avoiding the silicates but losing the phosphates OK?

PEAK says that there are hundreds of different acids than can be used to corrosion-proof the metals, meaning that one of these can do the same job as phosphate; but then, of course they're going to say that.

I'd think that as big as the market is, somebody would make a coolant formula for TOYs/Honda.
I know that using Prestone-green with the silicates can cause pitting, head gasket or pump failure on TOYs.

(Had to chuckle at the salesman who tried to get me to buy premixed. "It costs less and you only use half as much". When I tried to explain it takes twice as much, he said "No, only half. See? it says 50/50".)

EDIT:: Zerex makes a TOY-OEM coolant:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/antifreeze-radiator-products/antifreeze/105
Unfortunately it's not sold in my area and it only comes in pre-mix, so you have to buy 2.

 

Peak Global and Zerex Asian are the 2 that I use. I wouldn't waste money at a dealer.

I usually find the Peak at Kmart and Zerex at Napa.

 

Peak Global and Zerex Asian are the 2 that I use. I wouldn't waste money at a dealer.

I usually find the Peak at Kmart and Zerex at Napa.

last time I checked Toyota RED (Long Life) comes up cheaper than any quality aftermarket premixed coolant, because RED is 100% concentrate and after adding distilled water (~$0.70 at local Walgreens per gallon) total was same or even lower than for Zerex or other stuff. but i heard toyota jacked up RED price, so i dunno.

I lost Bosch Water Pump in as little as 1.5yrs/12k miles with system running on green coolant. screw aftermarket coolants, IF RED does the job right and cost same or lower.

 

Unfortunately, my NAPA doesn't carry Zerex, nobody has the PEAK Global and the dealer can't deliver until next week. I was hoping to do it over the weekend so I bought the PEAK LongLife but then had second thoughts. (From what I can tell on the specs, it's virtually the same as PEAK Global.)

One thing I learned it that one reason for the move to 50/50 products is that it prevents people from using tap water, the local chemistry of which can change the balance of today's specific-brand coolants.

 

Best Coolant for 1992-2001 3rd, 4th-gen Camry

After studying up on coolant composition and differences, I decided the best is TOY RED; followed by Zerex Asian; followed by non-green Peak.

TOY Red has phosphates that protect the aluminum but no Silicates or Borates that can harm gaskets/seals. However, TOY Red is only best if the system has never been changed out with American-style green (like Prestone), because once silicates have been introduced, the TOY Red will allow them to drop out of solution and build up. If the RED has been changed out, go with PEAK (but not the green). Newer TOYs use TOY PINK which is different.

Zerex Asian is the only thing on the American market that is the same formula as Toyota (has phosphate but no silicate). However, because it comes premixed, you have to buy twice as much. So, depending on your dealer (and your NAPA), it may be cheaper to buy TOY RED and distilled water. Looks like the only place to buy Zerex is at some NAPA stores.

The only difference between Peak Longlife and PEAK Global is that Global has an additive which allows it to top-off a vehicle using DexCool-type (GM or some Euros). Though the PEAK products are silicate-free, they lack the phosphate protection, replacing it with a different acid. It would work for replacing non-TOY RED coolant (in a system that's been running something non-OEM, and would need a full flush).

The silicate and phosphate free coolants are called OAT (Organic Acid). These Camrys like HOAT (Hybrid OAT). Anytime a different formula is used, the system should be well-flushed because, I learned, coolants do not mix well, regardless of label claims.

Some people will say that coolant is coolant. But I learned that isn't true today like it was 15 years ago (if somebody tells you that, ask them their age ). Surprisingly, the Japanese formula has never been commonly available in the US (you'd think they'd jump on this market) and people have happily used American-green. I also know that I used to just use Prestone and the first thing to go out on all my TOYs was the water pump and a couple times, gaskets. So this time I asked here and studied up. Oddly, TOY manual specs aren't picky at all and neither are many of the dealers but then again most shops will put tap water in.

Prestone makes a Long-Life and there are house brands, too, but none seem to have the formulas that the above three have. Silicates and Borates are sharp, microscopically, and take their toll on the aluminum and gaskets in the Japanese-style parts (which can be rubber, nylon), whereas they are needed in the American style systems (lead solder, copper parts).

 

I went with the TOY RED because:
a)That way I didn't have to retrofit, by changing out all of the old. I just drained the radiator and block, mixed 50/50 in a jug and filled 'er up.
b)The Zerex Asian turned out to cost as much and NAPA would have had to order it. Dealer agreed to sent a parts runner by for me

The Check Engine light stayed on until I burped and filled.

 

The cost of the RED was currently $27 (less than they quoted when I called). So it came out less than the Zerex for me. The bottle says, in part:
Long Life
Factory Red Fluid
A new generation...premium formulated for Toyotas.
Does not contain silicates that harm water pump seals
Does not contain borates that cause aluminum corrosion/pitting

The dealer said this last longer than the OEM from the 1990s.
Given how clean my old stuff was, I'd expect this to last 60-100k.

On the 1MZ V6, after draining the radiator and block, it took exactly one gallon RED and one gallon distilled water (including a little in the overflow rez).

I used to run 60/40 but I'm sure 50/50 is fine. The label says 50-60% gives -34 to -69F (265-273F). With everything premixed at 50/50, running 60% is becoming rare I guess.

Looks like the RED is actually imported from Japan, so shipping is half the cost. (Again, the US market is ripe for a TOY-specific coolant. Zerex has no competition so they only sell at NAPA and at high cost).

 

On the 1MZ V6, after draining the radiator and block, it took exactly one gallon RED and one gallon distilled water (including a little in the overflow rez).

That's good to know. If memory serves, the full capacity is 9.6 qts (not sure if that includes some amount in the o-flow rez), so 1.6 quarts is still in the heater core, right?

If you drain,fill with distilled,run with heater on,drain again, do this a couple times so all old coolant is flushed, then drain the radiator and block again, you're left with 1.6 qts of distilled in the heater core I think.

To end up with a 50/50 mix of new red, after following the above procedure to flush a couple times with distilled, you'd add 9.6/2=4.8 qts of new red (call it a gallon plus a quart for easier measurement), and however much distilled you need to top it off, plus some distilled in the reservoir.

Is that correct?

 

It says on the (plain nondiluted) Prestone jug that it is silicate, phosphate, borate, and nitrite free, provides extended rust and corrosion protection, and extended protection to all engine cooling system metals including aluminum.

 

Zerex was $12 a gallon at Napa. $24 for 2 gallons.
You used $27 gallon dealer red. Hows that cheaper? And, you still have to buy that gallon of distilled water too.

I also add in the time and cost to drive to the dealer. If they're local to you, thats great. Napa is in almost every town around here usually within 5 minutes. Dealer is 30 minute drive. I'd waste a gallon or two of gas($7) to make it to/fro the dealer compared with the buck of gas I need to get to/from Napa.

If you maintain your coolant properly, you'll never have to worry about flushes and 'block' or 'heater core' amounts, and trying to figure out the ratios.

I've never lost a water pump because of coolant. I have seen some fail(more so now) because of crappy assembly line work. Don't confuse the two. Got taken by Bosch or bootleg quality lately??? The local dealer has had so many low mileage water pump failures on pink under warranty(3.5/5.7) makes you wonder where these WP's are coming from. Says much about the coolant or the WP quality. Green doesn't cause WP failure.

Zerex Asian has a Napa pn. ALL NAPAS CAN GET IT. So, unfortunately, someones Napa lied to them. You can even order it at napaonline.

Peak Global is hit/miss at Kmart/Sears because they're so poorly managed. Kmart auto dept is pretty much dead collecting dustballs. But, if you hit the store/dept manager up, it'll show up on the shelves. Peak Global can be found elsewhere too. Make an effort to look as it could be in the auto section of your local supermarket or drug store, or smaller/local dept or hardware store chain, or the other auto part stores.

If you want to use the Prestone allmakes/allmodels/allflavors/allcuring.... then go ahead. My recommendation is only to reduce the interval in half and it should serve you well. I'm not a fan of much maligned Dexclones since most don't use it properly.

I also just drain/refill the radiator, dis/reconnect hoses, and clean out the recovery bottle. I haven't flushed a cooling system that I owned in over a decade. Why? Its not needed if you don't push the coolant to beyond its capability.

 

Zerex was $12 a gallon at Napa. $24 for 2 gallons.
You used $27 gallon dealer red. Hows that cheaper? And, you still have to buy that gallon of distilled water too.

I also add in the time and cost to drive to the dealer.
Green doesn't cause WP failure.

I also just drain/refill the radiator, dis/reconnect hoses, and clean out the recovery bottle. I haven't flushed a cooling system that I owned in over a decade. Why? Its not needed if you don't push the coolant to beyond its capability.

NAPA wanted over $14 = $29
Dealer $27 + $.65 distilled water= $27.65
TOY Parts runner= free delivery
NAPA wanted 5 days to get it in. They do not offer coolant online.

Green has silicates which wear pump seals and borates which corrode aluminum. It doesn't have the phosphate anti-corrosion that TOYs were engineered for. Some people do fine with it but it's not worth the risk IMO.

As for changing coolant, it's preventative maintenance. The 90s stuff breaks down just like oil does. When the 90s models gets old/high mileage, the coolant loses its anti-corrosive and lubricant properties.

 

are you seriously guys arguing about a few $ difference in a coolant fill that lasts 2-3 years (in case of RED)?

I would say, that discussion is getting ridiculous

just use RED people, it was designed for THIS car and it works fine, no worries about ANY side effects on ANYTHING, really no kidding ...

if you are unsure of your coolant condition and on going corrosion (due to electrolysis) just measure voltage between coolant fluid surface and chassis ground. anything below 150mV is OK .

on a 3 year old RED coolant in my 1mz-fe i've seen 13mV ... good as new. this one was always fed with RED, never a problem with cooling system.

on a 2 year old RED coolant in my 5s-fe I've seen up to 50mV ... slightly worse, but still good. this car had a doubtful pleasure of running on green coolant ... and lost almost new bosch water pump pump in 12k miles (gasket went out). before that my initial oem wp started running loud, because I neglected changing coolant (was RED) and it was the factory one ~7 years / 55k miles :facepalm: ... still never had a problem with cooling system, changed to bosch water pump because the oem one was loud, heating was working fine still. now running again on oem pump and RED coolant... really what's the point of using that green crap? to save $4 (or even zero in some regions) and loose a water pump after 2 years?

 

are you seriously guys arguing about a few $ difference in a coolant fill that lasts 2-3 years (in case of RED)?

I would say, that discussion is getting ridiculous

I don't know about arguing. I was just answering the guy's question(s), as I assumed it was directed my way.

 

Up here, Zerex Asian is 17$ and and change at wallyworld.
Toy Red is 25$ at dealer. So there is no point of going aftermarket. Also since I do half assed flushes I'd rather not mix the Toy red with anything else.

Also if your going further west or north you may want more concentrated stuff for those -40C or worse winters.

 

Toyota raised prices of red LLC around here ... last time I needed it (less than a year ago) I had to pay nearly $40 with taxes at the counter ... I still prefer that coolant concentrate for its longevity ... but the price is going up with every year... even stupid distilled water in local Walgreens is now double price when compared to a few years back ...

 

Toyota Red is a very good coolant. And if you drain/refill with 50% mix of distilled water, the cooling system should be pristine. The newer Toyota Pink however, isn't as good for these older cooling systems, and it has significant corrosion rate for brass type heat exchangers and possibly iron.

A concentrated alternative is Pentofrost A1, you can order it from your local NAPA and O'Reilly around $26, or $28.43 on Amazon.

Now is that the same jug Toyota hands you? I wonder if it's contract produced for Pentosin by CCI. IMO CCI brake fluids suck (OEM for many Japanese), but the Red coolant is pretty good.
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentofrost_A1.pdf

 

JohnGD, I have a 2001 Prizm. Can I run the Pentofrost A1 in it. I can not buy Toyota Red at my Dealers. I already run Pentofrost A1 per your recomendation in my Camry? I can buy it locally.

 

my car is over 20 years old and i use the prestone 50/50 stuff @ wallyworld and it seems to do fine. is that bad?
tony

 

That's what some owners reported. Some even use GM Deathcool, I mean Dexcool.

Japanese manufacturers and Ford don't want 2EHA in older cooling systems. In addition, Japanese manufacturers don't want silicates. BMW's G-48 coolant has both 2EHA and silicates, but their cooling systems were designed for them so there were no problems.

2EHA can soften nylon-6,6 and silicone seals. But if yours is working, then *maybe* it's fine? Dunno, because Prestone claims "all makes" with what is essentially a Deathcool clone.

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=816

 

Does this "red" coolant work in Hondas? My accord has blue

 

It's a good practice not to mix coolants, so you should flush it with distilled water. But yes, this coolant WILL work in Hondas. I've used it. If you use the Red, remember it's a 2-year coolant, but I wouldn't keep the super long life OAT coolants in the system over 3 years anyway. You may be able to stretch the Red to 3 by monitoring the cooling system voltage since new.

That said, if you keep the super long life OAT coolant in there for 4 years, then obviously the Pink will have a cost advantage. You can use the Pink in place of Honda Type II also.

The Red may begin, for example, 30-50 mV. Then say at 2 years it's 100mV, and started up to 150mV by 2.5 years, then change it. (You don't want it over 300 mV in general).

The newer Honda Type II coolant is similar to the Toyota Pink. Both the Pink and Type II are 1/2 of GM Dexcool with the sebacic acid and not the 2EHA. However, the Pink has problem protecting brass heat exchangers (heater core) and probably other non-aluminum metals, even if the Pink is supposed to be a super long life coolant. Read: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/8...0-89-95-toyota-pickup-hilux/317823-difference-between-honda-toyota-coolant.html

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=816
"Results of industry standard tests of the new Toyota extended-life coolant now show a substantial weight loss (corrosion), both in a 50-50 mix and in a 33% coolant mixture (solder corrosion is much greater in this more diluted solution). If you have to change a radiator or heater core, use aluminum."

 

Not to add wood to the fire, but I've been using the basic yellow Prestone coolant for the last 13 years...with flushed only every other 3 years....no problems, the inside of the 13 year old radiator still looks pristine. Really don't know what all this fuss is about...

 

I have read this entire thread and there is some incorrect information on here (especially with the older posts). JohnGD has the correct info. This is one of those subjects that is up to opinion and anecdotal reports (along with facts). Yes, some folks have used the incorrect coolant in their Toyotas with aluminum radiators and have not had problems (and others have had problems). BUT, the Japanese engineers have chosen a specific compound that they say works BEST in our Toyotas. It is very simple: You want a HOAT coolant (Asian formula). If it reads on the bottle that it is a HOAT, then you are good to go. They are sometimes described as a Phosphated OAT coolant, which is the same thing. The phospate makes the "H" go in front of the OAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology). A HOAT coolant (Asian formula) has Phosphates (yes, you want it to be phosphated), no silicates, no nitrites, no borates, and no amines (like 2-EHA). Here are some of the available HOAT coolants:

Toyota Red concentrate-has a red cap or Pink 50/50 pre-mix-has a yellow cap (of course both are very expensive).
Pentofrost A1
Beck/Arnley Red concentrate or Pink pre-mix
Recochem's "OEM Premium" Red concentrate or Pink pre-mix
Zerex Asian Vehicle Forumula (50/50 pre-mix)
Aisin Pink (50/50 pre-mix)

I prefer the Beck/Arnley Red or the Pentofrost A1 (about $25.50 and $26 respectively). Whichever one that is available and is closest to my house is the one I buy. The Recochem "OEM Premium" Red is the cheapest HOAT concentrate I have seen ($20 at Pep Boys). Zerex and Aisin are pre-mix, which to me makes them more expensive in my view.

The color actually does not matter. So, if you have a HOAT coolant and it is blue or green or purple or yellow, or whatever color, it doesn't matter (as long as you know the concentration). BUT, it is good advice to use the correct color because it helps to avoid confusion. Maybe you don't remember what you put in there three years ago, or maybe somebody else has your car and has no idea why you have green (or whatever color) in there and they don't know if it's a HOAT or not.

Now, I personally think that Toyota Red and Toyota Pink are exactly the same (except for that pink is a pre-diluted pre-mix). I am aware that Toyota Red reads "Long Life" on the label and that Toyota Pink reads "Super Long Life" on the label and that Toyota suggests different mileage coolant change intervals for these two coolants. I don't believe the Pink lasts longer than the Red. There are reasons Toyota makes these statements and it has to do with people mixing tap water with the red, which is why they state that it doesn't last as long as the pink. My belief is that if you use the correct water with the red coolant, it will be exactly the same as the pink and last just as long. No, Toyota isn't completely honest in it's information, but it's because they think a lot of consumers are stupid and will use tap water and then complain that the coolant didn't last long enough and try to get warranty repair work done. Toyota "dumbs down" some of their information to the lowest common denominator. That's my belief and no, I don't have proof of it.

 

John, thanks for all the info on these coolant choices, however I don't see you or anyone mentioning G05 (which also is similar to the factory Mercedes coolant, and G12)

I converted to that in two other old vehicles so am also planning to use it in the old Camry. I believe G05 is also a HOAT formula but it does contain a small amount of silicates. If you or anyone know anything about it please share.

The Camry's former owner was oblivious to these details and had been using whatever was cheapest and in this case it is Dexcool. That has to go before winter as I am in the "deathcool" camp.

 

John, thanks for all the info on these coolant choices, however I don't see you or anyone mentioning G05 (which also is similar to the factory Mercedes coolant, and G12)

I converted to that in two other old vehicles so am also planning to use it in the old Camry. I believe it is also a HOAT formula but it does contain a small amount of silicon. If you or anyone know anything about it please share.

The Camry's former owner was oblivious to these details and had been using whatever was cheapest and in this case it is Dexcool. That has to go before winter as I am in the "deathcool" camp.

The OM Of my Vibe calls for deathcool. I bought it with 100k on it. It had pink in it. I have changed it twice with Toyota pink. I am not sure if it actually rolled off the line with deathcool or not?

 

I can't believe the lengths some people will go to save $5-10 and hope the coolant is as good as OEM. What makes these cars great is the Toyota original parts, replacing them with "good enough" brings the car down a level at best.

 

Amen to that!!!!

 

How does this one look for my 96 V6?

http://www.recochem.com/products/oe...emium_coolants/oem_premium_extended_life_50_50_premix_antifreeze_coolant_toyota

 

You can use that brand (available at Pep Boys for $20), but I personally would not use the Pink pre-mix in an older Camry. Use the RED concentrate instead of the Pink pre-mix. Except for the concentration, they are essentially the same thing, but the pink extended life has a different ingredient than the red. This very small change can affect older systems that use other metals than aluminum, like brass for example. So, in a 90s Camry, use the Recochem Red concentrate. You can also get the exact same coolant that is known as Toyota Red concentrate if you get the Beck/Arnley Red or the Pentofrost A1 (red). Both are around $25 to $26.

 

Thanks for the info on Pentofrost A1......its $23.88 on Amazon shipped and Toyota Red $35 shipped.

 

Great price rollback on Amazon. There's no reason these coolants should cost over $30. Talk about excessive profit.

Put the Pentofrost A1 jug next to the Toyota one. I think they both come off the CCI production line.

 

I'm pleased to hear that the delivered price has been lowered for Pentofrost A1 on Amazon. Yes, the Pentofrost A1 and the Beck/Arnley red concentrated coolants are, as far as I know, the exact same product as the Toyota Red concentrate.