1mz-fe, Starts then dies.

[pmesfun]

So, I was driving home from school and the car starts stumbling and dies. I try to restart, but it only idles barely for about 1 second then dies. While I was waiting for the tow truck I removed the fuel hose going from the fuel filter to the manifold. Fuel shot out so I know its not a fuel problem. I'm thinking it could be some kind of sensor or the igniter. Or the timing belt skipped a tooth? I removed the upper timing covers and the cam pulley are aligned. Where should I check else and what could it possibly be?
Thanks for any suggestions.

[Chris Crash]

I doubt it's a timing issue...

Any CEL? Sounds electrical ish.

[heartdisease]

Sounds kind of like what my pickup would do when the fuel pump went out. It would start and run at first and then die under load. Then it progressed to dieing very soon after it started. Then it left me and I had to trailer it
Change the fuel filter that would be where I would start.

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by Chris Crash

I doubt it's a timing issue...

Any CEL? Sounds electrical ish.

I wish I had a scan tool. I might ask my teacher if I can borrow one, or get a cheapo from autozone.
What part should I check first? CKP Sensor? Camshaft Position Sensor? I about to check the MAF and Igniter right now.

Originally Posted by heartdisease

Sounds kind of what my pickup would do when the fuel pump went out. It would start and run at first and then die under load. Then it progressed to dieing very soon after it started. Then it left me and I had to trailer it
Change the fuel filter that would be where I would start.

Yes, my old van used to do the same thing, before the fuel pump went out. I think the fuel filter is fine, it shot out a lot of fuel when I removed the hose.

IIRC after a while it just barely even started and ended up not starting and if I held the throttle open it would make a popping sound out of the exhaust. Kind of what my old van did when I ran out of gas.

[heartdisease]

Will it run on a shot of starting fluid? My fuel pump would pressurize the line it just couldn't keep up the flow rate hence the gradual decline.

Autozone will check codes for free IIRC. Do you have an android smart phone? I have a scan tool but after I got a bluetooth adapter and the "Torque" app from the market it hasn't come out of the drawer. The price of a cheap e-bay adapter and the app is way cheaper than a scan tool and it does so much more. The free app will check and clear codes.

Cheap adaptors http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=obd2+bluetooth
What I did. OBDII Tool Question

[CTB727]

Ouch, that really sucks dude. Sorry to hear

I've never encountered a situation like this before, so I can't really help. But whatever it is, I hope you figure it out soon and it's not an expensive fix.

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by CTB727

Ouch, that really sucks dude. Sorry to hear

I've never encountered a situation like this before, so I can't really help. But whatever it is, I hope you figure it out soon and it's not an expensive fix.

Thanks man, appreciate the support.

Originally Posted by heartdisease

Will it run on a shot of starting fluid? My fuel pump would pressurize the line it just couldn't keep up the flow rate hence the gradual decline.

Autozone will check codes for free IIRC. Do you have an android smart phone? I have a scan tool but after I got a bluetooth adapter and the "Torque" app from the market it hasn't come out of the drawer. The price of a cheap e-bay adapter and the app is way cheaper than a scan tool and it does so much more. The free app will check and clear codes.

Cheap adaptors http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=obd2+bluetooth
What I did. OBDII Tool Question

So I got starting fluid, but I was too afraid to spray any because its backfiring out of the throttle body. Also I checked if I had spark, by removing a plug wire from the front coil and no spark while cranking and on position, I checked with a screw driver. Also, no voltage on the connector going to the coils, while the car was at the on position and when cranking. Any ideas?

Also, does anybody have the specs on the igniter the page from the fsm would help alot, thanks.

[bob2]

i think you lost your ignition amp. crankshaft sensor might have come unplugged but those usually don't go out all at once...

you should see steady, hot blue spark when you pull a plug wire. holding a screwdriver next to the terminal and pushing it into the valve cover, there should be no doubt.

i don't know how this works on the toyota - it might be a separate module, or it might be built into the ecm.

you might have tossed the timing belt as well - the toyota is not an interference engine, meaning that if the belt goes it will not run valves into pistons. having said that, the spark would still be strong... i think. at any rate, you would hear the engine spinning free on the starter 'cause there would be little, or no compression.

i don't know what an ignter is but if it is the circuit that fires the coils, i believe that's your problem.

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by bob2

i think you lost your ignition amp. crankshaft sensor might have come unplugged but those usually don't go out all at once...

you should see steady, hot blue spark when you pull a plug wire. holding a screwdriver next to the terminal and pushing it into the valve cover, there should be no doubt.

i don't know how this works on the toyota - it might be a separate module, or it might be built into the ecm.

you might have tossed the timing belt as well - the toyota is not an interference engine, meaning that if the belt goes it will not run valves into pistons. having said that, the spark would still be strong... i think. at any rate, you would hear the engine spinning free on the starter 'cause there would be little, or no compression.

i don't know what an ignter is but if it is the circuit that fires the coils, i believe that's your problem.

I checked and the ckp sensor was plugged in.
If I did it right the was no blue spark and not voltage from the connectors.
The timing belt was replaced in December, and reinstalled 3 weeks ago when doing cam seals. Removed the timing cover and the cam pulleys are still aligned.

Yeah, after so research the Igniter does "It takes timing signals from the ECU, processes them in its internal Integrated Circuit, then switches power to the coil." So yeah it is probably the problem. I'm just waiting for some information on how to test it.

[fenixus]

pmesfun, so sorry to hear that ... do you have a CEL?

if there is no fuel delivery for whatever reason, then the ECU stores a code for it, same as that happens when you run out of fuel.

since you checked the fuel filter output pressure more or less, then it doesn't seem like the problem, but you should get a gauge with banjo fitting for camry and test it anyways to see what it says.

I agree with others, if no spark then it's electrical. check basics first, so go through all fuses, visually check relays, see how harness grounds look like, anything loose anywhere?

if you had bad ignition coils then the ECU would store misfire codes for those specific cylinders (no random stuff, only specific ones that are connected to each other via wire).

It may be the igniter thing, look in FSM, perhaps SFI section should have test procedures for it.

Originally Posted by heartdisease

Will it run on a shot of starting fluid? My fuel pump would pressurize the line it just couldn't keep up the flow rate hence the gradual decline.

Autozone will check codes for free IIRC. Do you have an android smart phone? I have a scan tool but after I got a bluetooth adapter and the "Torque" app from the market it hasn't come out of the drawer. The price of a cheap e-bay adapter and the app is way cheaper than a scan tool and it does so much more. The free app will check and clear codes.

Cheap adaptors http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=obd2+bluetooth
What I did. OBDII Tool Question

heartdisease man, you made my day
thank you for that post and info on "Torque" being in Android Market it just happens that own a lovely android and was thinking about getting some soft for car ... and here you are with links and reviews
need to get bluetooth adapter from HK ebay finally

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by fenixus

pmesfun, so sorry to hear that ... do you have a CEL?

if there is no fuel delivery for whatever reason, then the ECU stores a code for it, same as that happens when you run out of fuel.

since you checked the fuel filter output pressure more or less, then it doesn't seem like the problem, but you should get a gauge with banjo fitting for camry and test it anyways to see what it says.

I agree with others, if no spark then it's electrical. check basics first, so go through all fuses, visually check relays, see how harness grounds look like, anything loose anywhere?

if you had bad ignition coils then the ECU would store misfire codes for those specific cylinders (no random stuff, only specific ones that are connected to each other via wire).

It may be the igniter thing, look in FSM, perhaps SFI section should have test procedures for it.

I don't have a scan tool, hopefully my teacher will be willing to let me borrow one. I'm pretty sure there will be a couple codes.

Yeah, I check everything I could think of, EFI Fuse and Relay, All fuses. Resistance of the MAF sensor was 2.9 at cold spec.

Is it even possible for all three coils to go bad, I really think its the Igniter since it controls when they spark.
I looked in Ignition section, couldn't find a thing. Maybe I missed it, I will check the SFI section in a bit.
Thanks for the help.

[fenixus]

all 3 coils at same time? chance like one to million... more likely igniter went south as it powers all of them based on ECU inputs from other sensors.

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by fenixus

all 3 coils at same time? chance like one to million... more likely igniter went south as it powers all of them based on ECU inputs from other sensors.

yeah, no power to all three coils at the ON position and while cranking, and no spark when I checked with a screw driver.

Also, the actual coils showed no resistance on all of them, but I think I probably did something wrong.

Can you find the pn# for the igniter? Can't find it for the life of me at toyotapartszone.
I know its around $300-500, but I'm getting it from the junkyard if its the problem.

[fenixus]

hey, you had in past a funky ECT for EFI sensor misreporting resistance/temperature when cold, perhaps it went out totally?

check resistance on it too.

mine says this:
1) 5s-fe (same sensor)
a) cold soaked car over night, ambient ~38F, under hood ~50F
ECT 4.06K ohm (norm)
b) fully warmed up (ECT reporting 90C in OBD2)
ECT 233 ohm @ 90C (norm)

2) 1mz-fe (same sensor, funky when cold)
a) cold soaked car over night, ambient ~38F, under hood ~50F
ECT 4.99K ohm (upper border line)
b) fully warmed up (ECT reporting 87C in OBD2)
ECT 266 ohm @ 87C (middle of range)

[pmesfun]

I will check that also,thanks. What's the specs on the Camshaft Position Sensor, since its very easy to get to.