Black Stone oil analysis '02 V6 @ 125k TBN (Royal Purple 5w-30 6mo OCI)

[fenixus]

Hi people,

Today received my Black Stone oil analysis with TBN.
Fresh Royal Purple 5w-30 oil (OEM filter) was poured in before Winter (SEP '10) and changed after exactly 6 months in March this year (~1,500 miles driven).

In those 6 months car was driven MOSTLY in city (Winter) on short distances, considered severe engine use (triple bad or so haha). Also considered below listed problems it was almost like towing something

Car had multiple electrical (bad wire harness disabling AFR sensors) & mechanical issues (bad PCV, bad MC, bad ABS module, frozen caliper slide pins causing serious brake drag, then bad front wheel bearings & hubs, TB & IAC cleaning etc.) ... so it went through a lot on that OCI

these are results:


I am glad there is zero antifreeze in oil. I had some doubts about HG gasket, because coolant level was low when I bought the car in Summer. Thankfully it simply must have evaporated in hot Florida Summer (wasn't checked by anyone for a while).

I seem to have some excessive metal and mineral particles in RP oil sample, like:
lead 5 vs 3 univ.avg.
molybdenum 95 vs 63 univ.avg.
magnesium 978 vs 115 univ.avg.(should I worry about this one?)
phosphorus 718 vs 706 univ.avg.
zinc 869 vs 832 univ.avg.
barium 1vs 0 univ.avg.

also RP oil viscosity results (both 100F and 212F) are not too good, slightly below lower avg limits.
EDIT:
After googling a while I found that all above excessive in my motor oil sample except for lead are oil additives, so probably they are used by Royal Purple. Seems they used A LOT of magnesium and molybdenum ...

anyways, TBN seems good, 3.3 is fine as they wrote (1.0 is low).

the rest seems in order.

not bad for a 6 month full synthetic OCI if you ask me. after taking sample I sea foamed the car on fresh dino oil and changed to M1 FS HM 10w-30 (OEM filter), wondering how results change after switching to M1 FS HM oil...

Let me know if I should take a closer look at anything. Thanks for opinions.

[fenixus]

received the printed hard copy today. it includes the summary of elements with descriptions as what is what and where from

here it is:


all is clear now

my engine shows normal avg wear and tear (only lead levels are slightly higher which points to bearings) and additives levels I was worried about are definitely coming from oil and are detergents (molybdenum and barium) and anti-wear additives (magnesium, zinc and phosphorus).

now can't wait until June when I will be taking oil sample from 5s-fe after 6 months on M1 FS 5w-30 with Lucas Oil Stabilizer
this one I assume may show some crazy things ... I expect dramatic lead or copper or aluminum levels (noisy camshaft bearing since 2 years)...

[JohnGD]

Which M1 do you plan to use? Looks like M1 has the regular 5W-30, the Extended performance 5W-30, and also the Emission Systems Protection (ESP) 5W-30. O'Reilly has $4.99/qt for the first, $5.49 for the second, and I guess regular price for the third ESP.

Remembering the discussion on HTHS I did some more searches:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1822794
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...=717707&page=1

Originally Posted by fenixus

now can't wait until June when I will be taking oil sample from 5s-fe after 6 months on M1 FS 5w-30 with Lucas Oil Stabilizer
this one I assume may show some crazy things ... I expect dramatic lead or copper or aluminum levels (noisy camshaft bearing since 2 years)...

[bdy0003]

How much does it cost to get this analysis done?

[fenixus]

that's a good question and I have a very fuzzy answer LOL

I was planning to run 5s-fe on same oil type as V6 now does, which would be M1 Full Synthetic High Mileage from Walmart, either 10w-30 (warmer months) or 5w-30 (cold months) ... but I need to use up unused oil bottles from past first

... that being sad, the next OCI on 5s-fe would be something like:
1qt of 5w-30 Valvoline SynPower
2qt of 5w-30 Mobil1 FS (classic)
~0.5qt of Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer
plus whatever else I can add to it to top off the missing 0.1-0.3qts

thanks for the links on HTHS, I will do some more reading.

Originally Posted by JohnGD

Which M1 do you plan to use? Looks like M1 has the regular 5W-30, the Extended performance 5W-30, and also the Emission Systems Protection (ESP) 5W-30. O'Reilly has $4.99/qt for the first, $5.49 for the second, and I guess regular price for the third ESP.

Remembering the discussion on HTHS I did some more searches:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1822794
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...=717707&page=1

$25 is plain oil sample analysis
TBN costs $10 extra.

first order sample kit for free on their website:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

once you have it, follow the instructions to collect the sample (usually when you change oil, from middle of drain), pack it up using provided materials and include a paper slip with your credit card number or a check. postage cost $1.90, I buy it straight from a machine at post office to avoid long lines after work (damn Post Offices are always closed or crowded when I can go to them).

Originally Posted by bdy0003

How much does it cost to get this analysis done?

[fenixus]

it seems the M1 FS HM 10w-30 is an excellent oil passing A3/B3,A3/B4 and having HTHS at 3.62 !
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ge_10W-30.aspx

M1 FS HM 5w-30 is only slightly worse and of course rated at A1/B1,A5/B5 because the HTHS level is at 3.4 (A3/B3 requires it to be over 3.5)

it's like night and day when compared to thin M1 FS 5w-30 (or pretty similar RP 5w-30) that got rated at A1/B1, A5/B5 and has a pretty common (average quality) HTHS level of 3.13
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il1_5W-30.aspx

M1 FS 10w-30 is a little better choice (HTHS at 3.26), but not so much when FS HM version is out there:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub..._1_10W-30.aspx

Still, need to compare M1 FS EP oils.

[fenixus]

M1 FS EP 5w-30 is only a tad better than classic M1 FS 5w-30, HTHS at 3.2, nothing special. M1 5w-30 FS HM is way better than that (3.4).
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...rformance.aspx

M1 FS ESP 5w-30 however seems good to me. HTHS at 3.48 which is higher than M1 FS HM 5w-30 (3.4) and slightly lower than M1 FS HM 10w-30 (3.62).
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...ula_5W-30.aspx

In Summary:
M1 ESP might be a best choice for 5w-30 during Winter months.
However M1 FS HM 10-30 beats them all in Summer months

For now I do not take into consideration thicker oils like 5w-40 or 10w-40 as long as neither of cars burn any oil. those oils would probably cause some slight MPG loss.

I am also too afraid to consider 0w weight oils on those old engines. V6 would probably start leaking, and i4 wouldn't like it either...

[Stillrunning]

FYI last Blackstone I did in 2009 at 158,736 miles, 3,034 MiOO using M1 0w-30 and Pure1 filter was:

Aluminum - 2
Iron - 5
Copper - 2
Lead - 2
Silicon - 22 (this reading does not differentiate between silicate or silicone)
Insolubles - 0.2

[fenixus]

thanks.

seems I had higher aluminum and lead (less silicone though).

I'm hoping to see better numbers next time as so many things has been fixed with this car. also weather will be more forgiving soon (less warm up phase driving). perhaps I will finally do more highway driving now too.

I'm using stock OEM filters though and will be for some time
also next time will be M1 FS HM 10w-30 oil, wondering what its superb HTHS (3.62) can do to wear levels when compared to running on RP 5w-30 (normal 3.1 HTHS or so).

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

FYI last Blackstone I did in 2009 at 158,736 miles, 3,034 MiOO using M1 0w-30 and Pure1 filter was:

Aluminum - 2
Iron - 5
Copper - 2
Lead - 2
Silicon - 22 (this reading does not differentiate between silicate or silicone)
Insolubles - 0.2

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by fenixus

wondering what its superb HTHS (3.62) can do to wear levels when compared to running on RP 5w-30 (normal 3.1 HTHS or so).

The numbers by themselves are a little like reading tea leaves so don't fixate on them too much. It's impossible to equate wear numbers to actual degree of wear or service life but they do serve as a comparison to vehicle averages and your own earlier numbers. Significant change in one is what you're looking for. Hard to justify RP's price and the wear numbers with off the shelf M1 or other full synthetics. I did use Amsoil for a short time in another vehicle and found it's wear numbers a little worse than M1's but very acceptable, it was the price and access I could not justify. Filtration is more important than oil type. I am using Amsoil's dual filtration system in another vehicle and am getting zero insolubles, but that comes at a price as the by-pass filter is $35.00 once per year.

[LynchburgCSI]

Interesting stuff. My free container came in today. Debating on whether or not I want to send it in.

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by LynchburgCSI

Debating on whether or not I want to send it in.

Yea, this is more hobby to me, but I now do an initial UOA on a just acquired vehicle to establish a base number for comparison, like I do with a compression test. I'd only do UOAs if you plan on keeping the car a very long time. They're also good for used vehicle analysis as they will show pending bearing doom if it's on the verge as well as water/anti-freeze content.

[fenixus]

agreed, 100%.

I can spend that $35 extra bucks (+$1.90 postage) twice a year for each car I take care of and want to keep for long.
you're right, drastic jumps in wear levels is what is most valuable about those analysis results, rest is pretty much giving an idea only.

Price wise (and specs wise, not marketing/PR wise hehe) I chose M1 oils after all, any type of full synthetic line that I can get cheap at Walmarts.
RP is simply not worth it for me. Other brands are probably not bad either (I like Valvoline too very much). that's pretty much thing of taste, not a real choice
I like when companies reveal HTHS levels, makes it easier to compare oils anti-wear protection abilities.

I agree on using best filters out there. though going price wise, first I want to use up all OEM filters before I buy more of a different type (Pure1 most likely). I don't like stocking things up.

I was actually considering Amsoil myself, until I noticed they recommend only 4 month OCI time wise (up to 7,500 OCI mileage wise) ... in my case not worth it, I change synthetic oils usually time wise, barely mileage wise (maybe in Summer), not doing enough miles.

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

The numbers by themselves are a little like reading tea leaves so don't fixate on them too much. It's impossible to equate wear numbers to actual degree of wear or service life but they do serve as a comparison to vehicle averages and your own earlier numbers. Significant change in one is what you're looking for. Hard to justify RP's price and the wear numbers with off the shelf M1 or other full synthetics. I did use Amsoil for a short time in another vehicle and found it's wear numbers a little worse than M1's but very acceptable, it was the price and access I could not justify. Filtration is more important than oil type. I am using Amsoil's dual filtration system in another vehicle and am getting zero insolubles, but that comes at a price as the by-pass filter is $35.00 once per year.

[JohnGD]

I too wonder if the higher HTHS can help in wear metal counts.

The only HTHS>3.5 oil that are available for $4.99/qt on sale is probably only the 0W-40. At 75 cSt @ 40degF, it's actually thicker than the HM 5W-30's 68, and closer to HM 10W-30's 78! But it's not as thick as the HM 10W-40 (98)

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...leage_Oil.aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_0W-40.aspx

Originally Posted by fenixus

thanks.

seems I had higher aluminum and lead (less silicone though).

I'm hoping to see better numbers next time as so many things has been fixed with this car. also weather will be more forgiving soon (less warm up phase driving). perhaps I will finally do more highway driving now too.

I'm using stock OEM filters though and will be for some time
also next time will be M1 FS HM 10w-30 oil, wondering what its superb HTHS (3.62) can do to wear levels when compared to running on RP 5w-30 (normal 3.1 HTHS or so).

[fenixus]

you are right!

I haven't eye balled this one. HTHS at 3.8 sounds perfect, especially that this oil is a better fit for Winter (0W) than 5W. it could actually be the best choice for Winter months instead of a 5W-30 (ESP or FS HM).

Might be a good idea to try them in both cars before next Winter
Specs of M1 Advanced Economy 0W-30 are not so good (HTHS @ 3.06), I'd rather use 5w-30 ESP or FS HM instead... but 0W-40 (I like its thickness specs too) sounds perfect and beats them all

Last time in Walmart I bought 5qts jug of M1 FS HM 10w-30 (HTHS @ 3.63) at $24.50, good price, nice HTHS.
If 0W-40 can be purchased at $4.99/qt then it's still a good price ($25 for 5qts) and provides even better engine protection with ideally more protection in Winter freezing temperatures.

Originally Posted by JohnGD

I too wonder if the higher HTHS can help in wear metal counts.

The only HTHS>3.5 oil that are available for $4.99/qt on sale is probably only the 0W-40. At 75 cSt @ 40degF, it's actually thicker than the HM 5W-30's 68, and closer to HM 10W-30's 78! But it's not as thick as the HM 10W-40 (98)

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...leage_Oil.aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_0W-40.aspx