Camry no-start problem

[SuperSapper]

I have a 93 Camry with 167K, automatic, 4cyl. Vehicle ran with no apparent problems until I ran a compression test, then the next day I have a cranking with no start.

Is it possible to perform a compression test improperly that will cause the vehicle to not start the next day?

Test was performed as follows:
1. Spark plug wires removed
2. Spark plugs removed
3. Compression tester threaded into #1 plug hole with no issues
4. Throttle held at wide open
5. Vehicle key turned and cranked for approx 4 seconds
6. Procedure repeated for cylinders 2,3 & 4

I did not unplug the two connectors from the distributor and the vehicle was not warmed up (I know...I should've warmed it up). Reading for each cylinder were 140, 145, 140, 140.

Did I mess something up?

SuperSapper

[Mister_Perkins]

Well you have below normal compression for one.

Why did you hold the throttle Wide Open?? That does nothing but let more air into the motor.

You may have flooded the motor if you didn't remove the EFI Fuse. Did you let it sit for a while and try to start it again?

Every time you cranked the motor 4 seconds you were spraying a mist of fuel into every cylinder for 4 seconds. 24 Seconds of fuel may not sound like much, but it could have flooded it.

You need to check for the following things now that it wont start.

1. Spark
2. Fuel
3. Compression (Already checked)

First, Open the fuse panel on the Drivers side engine bay (Larger one) And remove the EFI Relay / Fuse. This will assure you do not spray fuel into the cylinders.

Second, with the spark plugs out place them into the wires and ground the plug against something metal. Have a helper crank the motor. Watch for the spark. Should be a pretty bright, vibrant color. If its not, Check resistance of spark plug wires (25Kohm max), the Coil, The GE and NE Pickups, wiring between coil and Igniter, Igniter, Wiring between igniter and ECU, ECU. If everything checks out, but your spark is still weak replace the igniter and retest. If you have access to a spare ECU, try replacing it and see if theres a change as well. Also try to Wiggle the wires / plug at the Igniter and see if it starts.

If spark is good;

Third, Grab a can of starting fluid and pull the air intake tubing off. Spray some starting fluid into the intake (Throttle body) and try to start. If it does start for a few seconds, grab a Fuel Pressure gauge, reinstall the EFI and measure the fuel pressure after the filter. (41 PSI or higher). If you have lower than 41 pressure, Replace the filter and Re-test. If its still the same, First go back to the pump area and wiggle the wires around and check for 12V+ To the pump. If lower than 12V+, Repair the wiring. Retest. If still low, Drop the tank and pull the pump and check the sock / pickup for cloggage. Clean, Re-install the pump to tank. While it's down, also blow compressed air through the main line to assure theres no foreign particles clogging it up. With tank still dropped, re-attach main fuel line and retest. If its still low, Replace the pump. Retest.

Fourth. Attach a T after the filter and Crank the motor until the pressure reaches at least 41PSI. Stop cranking. Let the car sit for 15 minutes and monitor the pressure. It should not drop more than 2psi Per minute. If it does, replace the Pressure Regulator on the passsenger side of the fuel rail.

If everything Checks out and it still wont start, you skipped something. recheck your steps and re-test as necessary.

[SuperSapper]

Mister Perkins,

Thanks for your reply!

First, to answer your question, I've always been told you get more accurate readings on compression tests by having the throttle fully open. If that's a falacy, please let me know.

The vehicle sat for 24 hours before I ever tried started it. I ran the test as described in my post, but never started it. I came out the next afternoon and that's when it just cranked.

I checked for fuel using the method you described (some starting fluid in the intake air box) and got nothing.

I pulled the spark plug wires and got no spark using the screwdriver-in-the wire-and-grounded-to-a-body-bolt method. Got nothing from at least 2 wires.

This prompted the question about whether or not I damaged an electrical component (ignitor/coil/ECU?) doing it the way I did. I can't imagine that's the case, but, well, the fact is the car won't start. Another poster in the forum indicated that GEN 3 Camry's had an issue with coils, and given the mileage and age, I'm going to start there under the presumption that I have developed a cooincidental problem.

It's just the timing of it all is too perfect. Did I screw something up doing the test the way I did?

(I will also check the timing belt, given the huge leak near the crank seal).

Thanks again, any advice is appreciated.

Originally Posted by Mister_Perkins

Well you have below normal compression for one.

Why did you hold the throttle Wide Open?? That does nothing but let more air into the motor.

You may have flooded the motor if you didn't remove the EFI Fuse. Did you let it sit for a while and try to start it again?

Every time you cranked the motor 4 seconds you were spraying a mist of fuel into every cylinder for 4 seconds. 24 Seconds of fuel may not sound like much, but it could have flooded it.

You need to check for the following things now that it wont start.

1. Spark
2. Fuel
3. Compression (Already checked)

First, Open the fuse panel on the Drivers side engine bay (Larger one) And remove the EFI Relay / Fuse. This will assure you do not spray fuel into the cylinders.

Second, with the spark plugs out place them into the wires and ground the plug against something metal. Have a helper crank the motor. Watch for the spark. Should be a pretty bright, vibrant color. If its not, Check resistance of spark plug wires (25Kohm max), the Coil, The GE and NE Pickups, wiring between coil and Igniter, Igniter, Wiring between igniter and ECU, ECU. If everything checks out, but your spark is still weak replace the igniter and retest. If you have access to a spare ECU, try replacing it and see if theres a change as well. Also try to Wiggle the wires / plug at the Igniter and see if it starts.

If spark is good;

Third, Grab a can of starting fluid and pull the air intake tubing off. Spray some starting fluid into the intake (Throttle body) and try to start. If it does start for a few seconds, grab a Fuel Pressure gauge, reinstall the EFI and measure the fuel pressure after the filter. (41 PSI or higher). If you have lower than 41 pressure, Replace the filter and Re-test. If its still the same, First go back to the pump area and wiggle the wires around and check for 12V+ To the pump. If lower than 12V+, Repair the wiring. Retest. If still low, Drop the tank and pull the pump and check the sock / pickup for cloggage. Clean, Re-install the pump to tank. While it's down, also blow compressed air through the main line to assure theres no foreign particles clogging it up. With tank still dropped, re-attach main fuel line and retest. If its still low, Replace the pump. Retest.

Fourth. Attach a T after the filter and Crank the motor until the pressure reaches at least 41PSI. Stop cranking. Let the car sit for 15 minutes and monitor the pressure. It should not drop more than 2psi Per minute. If it does, replace the Pressure Regulator on the passsenger side of the fuel rail.

If everything Checks out and it still wont start, you skipped something. recheck your steps and re-test as necessary.

[Mister_Perkins]

Ive never heard of opening the throttle to get a better reading. Your throttle has to pull air through valves, and you are just checking to see what compression the cylinders are reading. I dont see how the throttle can affect compression?

Anyways, Yes the coil is often culprit. Since you do not have spark, those would be the first things i would check out. Make sure you have voltage to the igniter first, then check the coil for cracks. The coil and igniter are often culprit.

I think this problem is just coincidence to tell you the truth. Getting a compression test will not Cause your ignition system to go Kapoop.



Before ripping into the ignition system, you should check the Resistance of the wires first.

They should be a MAximum of 25 Kohm. if they are above 25kohm, replace them.

[SuperSapper]

Sir,

You are indeed a true gentleman and scholar. I will check those things.

This particular apprentice tech type really appreciates the help!

Originally Posted by Mister_Perkins

Ive never heard of opening the throttle to get a better reading. Your throttle has to pull air through valves, and you are just checking to see what compression the cylinders are reading. I dont see how the throttle can affect compression?

Anyways, Yes the coil is often culprit. Since you do not have spark, those would be the first things i would check out. Make sure you have voltage to the igniter first, then check the coil for cracks. The coil and igniter are often culprit.

I think this problem is just coincidence to tell you the truth. Getting a compression test will not Cause your ignition system to go Kapoop.



Before ripping into the ignition system, you should check the Resistance of the wires first.

They should be a MAximum of 25 Kohm. if they are above 25kohm, replace them.

[mr.manzano]

Originally Posted by Mister_Perkins

Well you have below normal compression for one.

Why did you hold the throttle Wide Open?? That does nothing but let more air into the motor.

You may have flooded the motor if you didn't remove the EFI Fuse. Did you let it sit for a while and try to start it again?

Every time you cranked the motor 4 seconds you were spraying a mist of fuel into every cylinder for 4 seconds. 24 Seconds of fuel may not sound like much, but it could have flooded it.

You need to check for the following things now that it wont start.

1. Spark
2. Fuel
3. Compression (Already checked)

First, Open the fuse panel on the Drivers side engine bay (Larger one) And remove the EFI Relay / Fuse. This will assure you do not spray fuel into the cylinders.

Second, with the spark plugs out place them into the wires and ground the plug against something metal. Have a helper crank the motor. Watch for the spark. Should be a pretty bright, vibrant color. If its not, Check resistance of spark plug wires (25Kohm max), the Coil, The GE and NE Pickups, wiring between coil and Igniter, Igniter, Wiring between igniter and ECU, ECU. If everything checks out, but your spark is still weak replace the igniter and retest. If you have access to a spare ECU, try replacing it and see if theres a change as well. Also try to Wiggle the wires / plug at the Igniter and see if it starts.

If spark is good;

Third, Grab a can of starting fluid and pull the air intake tubing off. Spray some starting fluid into the intake (Throttle body) and try to start. If it does start for a few seconds, grab a Fuel Pressure gauge, reinstall the EFI and measure the fuel pressure after the filter. (41 PSI or higher). If you have lower than 41 pressure, Replace the filter and Re-test. If its still the same, First go back to the pump area and wiggle the wires around and check for 12V+ To the pump. If lower than 12V+, Repair the wiring. Retest. If still low, Drop the tank and pull the pump and check the sock / pickup for cloggage. Clean, Re-install the pump to tank. While it's down, also blow compressed air through the main line to assure theres no foreign particles clogging it up. With tank still dropped, re-attach main fuel line and retest. If its still low, Replace the pump. Retest.

Fourth. Attach a T after the filter and Crank the motor until the pressure reaches at least 41PSI. Stop cranking. Let the car sit for 15 minutes and monitor the pressure. It should not drop more than 2psi Per minute. If it does, replace the Pressure Regulator on the passsenger side of the fuel rail.

If everything Checks out and it still wont start, you skipped something. recheck your steps and re-test as necessary.

The reason for witch the auto tech told him about the wide open trotthe is simple, it doesnt affect the resoults of the test like you said, but by depressing the gas pedal to the floor you are disabling the fuel injection, it wont spray gas when you crank it...... it is a safety measure so people wont start their car by any change with the gas depressed all the way because it could cause an accident, now! cars have neutral safety switch so they dont turn on when is not in neutral, but still you never know if the switch is stock close or it have a short to power or gound depending the kind of switch, there by there is another safety measure for the good been of us the people
hope i help you to understand the why of the wide open trotthe

[Tedders]

See my latest post for "95 Camry no start". I really have a 93. And I hope your problem ain't what I had...

Tedders