Diagnosing 96 Camry 4 cyl head gasket issue

[rstl99]

I'm trying to better diagnose a possible headgasket issue on my 96 Camry (4 cyl).
The symptoms were: loss of coolant in rad without obvious leak anywhere.

First mechanic I took it to said he noticed some whitish smoke from exhaust when cold (but that was still in cold weather). He also said the engine was missing upon startup, and quickly concluded (given the coolant level was quite low in the rad when I took it to him - I just never thought of checking it in the cold winter months) that the engine has a head gasket issue and is not worthy repairing because of age of car. He said it's not worth replacing the HG because by then the bottom end will be worn out because of coolant seeping into the oil pan, yadayada. Car only has about 135,000 miles on it. Inclusing purchase price, I've spend about $5K on it since I got it three years ago. Would like to get another couple of years out of it without having to invest too much extra cash.

Another mechanic (got a second opinion) looked at the spark plugs and detected whitish discoloration that may point to coolant entry. He put some stop-leak product in the rad and said to keep driving it, keeping an eye on coolant level. I've been adding about .5-1 liter of water a week, for the last couple of weeks, as it seemed to be going down. Now, oddly enough, the level seems to be going UP!?

Car has ran fine, except a couple of days ago in a parking lot, where it started running rough (felt it was running on 3 cylinders) for a few minutes. It then cleared up and has been fine since.

I figure my next step is to do a compression test (have a tester somewhere, but haven't used it in 20 years), but before doing so thought I'd share a few pictures to see if someone can spot something

Spark plugs look ok, but would whitish color on one or two denote possible coolant leakage into the cylinder?
http://www.toyotanation.com/photos/u...sparkplugs.jpg
Oil filler cap - no sign of milky goo indicative of oil/coolant mix in there
http://www.toyotanation.com/photos/u.../fillercap.jpg
Dip stick (no sign of coolant)
http://www.toyotanation.com/photos/u...3/dipstick.jpg
Rad opening (bit overfull, no obvious sign of oil)
http://www.toyotanation.com/photos/u...116843/rad.jpg

I'm debating on (1) selling the car, with full disclosure (2) just driving it as is, keeping an eye on coolant level and oil consistency or (3) having a go at replacing the head gasket myself. It's a station wagon and very practical for me, the body is very good, very little rust, and all works on it. So I'd hate to part with it for little money, but then again don't want to throw too much effort/money into something that might only get worse.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[71Corolla]

I've said this many times, do a leak down test. It is a very simple test and the results are fool proof. No idea why your mechanic did not do this, it takes only a few minutes, especially on the 4 cylinder. You don't even need a leak down tester tool, just putting compressed air into each cylinder will reveal a bad head gasket right away, you'll see bubbles coming through the coolant.

[rstl99]

Ok 71, good call. I need to find me a leakdown tester!!

[carsrus]

[QUOTE=rstl99;3533772
He put some stop-leak product in the rad and said to keep driving it, keeping an eye on coolant level. I've been adding about .5-1 liter of water a week, for the last couple of weeks, as it seemed to be going down. Now, oddly enough, the level seems to be going UP!?
[/QUOTE]

Stop leak = problems. I could go on for days about how stupid it is.......

Do a compression test, make sure your not loosing coolant through a leak. Either way if it is a head gasket make sure to have the head magnafluxed for cracks. Its not a bad job, pretty straight forward.

If oil isn't milkshaked the bearings should be fine.

[rstl99]

Originally Posted by carsrus

Stop leak = problems. I could go on for days about how stupid it is.......

Do a compression test, make sure your not loosing coolant through a leak. Either way if it is a head gasket make sure to have the head magnafluxed for cracks. Its not a bad job, pretty straight forward.

If oil isn't milkshaked the bearings should be fine.

Yeah, I know about stop leak products, but was kind of desperate because I needed to be able to drive the car for another month (until Spring arrived and I could take out my summer car from storage), and the first mechanic had given me a very dire prognosis. At least, the stop-leak allowed me to keep driving it until now, and now I'm at the point of asking myself: what do I do next.

I'm toying with having a go at replacing the HG myself - I'll be retired in a few weeks so time will be plentiful. Then again, another part of me thinks I should just unload it with full disclosure and look for another winter beater eventually. Not sure I want to spend a lot of time wrenching post-retirement...

Thanks!

[ghettosled]

the car really isnt worth much with a bad HG (depending on age and mileage). why not give it a go and try to replace the gasket yourself. as long as you didnt run the car hot, it shouldnt be too terrible of a job.

[rstl99]

Hi again,

I got around to taking the compression of my cylinders today.

The results (not sure which one is 1 and which is 4):
Rightside: 212
Next one: 218
Next one: 222
Leftside: 215

Here's a picture of the brand new spark plugs installed to warm up the engine, after I took them out and did the compression test. You can see that the one closest is already discolored, after running for only 10 minutes or so. It's the cylinder that reads 212.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/al...pictureid=1318

I don't have a leakdown tester, but compression looks good to me!

Also, when the engine was warm, I carefully took off the rad cap, and there was no sign of bubbling inside.

SO: based on discoloration of the sparkplug, there does seem to be some coolant (I assume) getting into the chamber, and yet the car starts and idles well, compression is good.

I don't want to do a HG job if I don't have to.

I would appreciate your thoughts based on the information above.

Thanks.

[carsrus]

Hmm i dont know. That last spark plug does sorta look like its had some coolant on it.

I would flush the rad and block really good and change the thermostat and rad cap. Cheap and can cause weird problems like this if they go bad.

Its possible the head has a hairline crack which seals up once the metal expands, but thats just a theory.

[JohnGD]

With those compression numbers and the radiator is not bubbling while running, I think the engine could probably run for another month. The only thing would be the build up on the spark plug that may foul it and make the engine run rough. If so maybe put one of the old plugs back in or rotate a couple plugs.

As mentioned, it could also be a crack in the block. If that's the case it's a goner and no sense trying to replace the HG. A low mileage (or KM) used engine is a better bet, with a 3-month warranty from the junkyard. There are plenty of them around, at least in the US.

[rstl99]

Thanks for your thoughts.

The compression numbers seem to confirm to me that the engine may be significantly carboned up. When peering down the spark plug holes with a flashlight, I could see the carbon on the piston tops. So the rings appear to be good, but there is carbon buildup, and probably a head gasket leak (and possibly, a cracked head). Not sure I'd want to go through the trouble of taking the head off only to find out it's cracked (or worse, the block, as someone said).

I've heard of Camry's with the 2.2L with a lot more mileage (about 150k miles on mine) and no significant issue, but I don't know the kind of maintenance mine saw before I acquired it 3 years ago. I know that shortly after that, I needed to get the rad replaced, then when the mechanic replaced the leaking valve cover gasket, he checked the timing belt and it looked VERY worn, as if it had never been replaced - even though the PO had told his wife to tell me that he had recently replaced it). I think the PO looked after the body well (no rust) but not so much the mechanicals.

Not sure it's worth my doing much more work on it. Either I'll keep driving it until it quits, or try to sell it as-is, disclosing a possible HG leak (wouldn't get much for it, obviously). I found the station wagon very handy for hauling stuff to and from the cottage, etc., but I have recently acquired a Dodge Cummins pickup so maybe the Camry is no longer as needed (however, much easier to jump into the Camry to go pick something up at Home Depot).

Anyway, wish I could have gotten another year or two out of it, but them the breaks!