3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
I started my 30 mile drive to work from home with an "okay" functioning brake system for the first 15/20 miles and things went to this in the last 10/15 miles before I could even do something about it. I admit that it was my stupidity in thinking I had more time before I had to do it. I take full responsibility for letting it get this far in-spite of obvious signs.
BUT,
Why did the below happen? Had the below not happened, I definitely would have got another few thousand miles out of it.
Bad sliding pins on torque plate on the caliper assembly? Something else? What should I do so that the problem in the second pic does not happen again?
I know the second pic also suggests another problem (in addition to the one I am asking about above) that's much larger one and possibly scales out the the entire brake assembly and mounting to the axle. But I can live with that (as I did get about 30K+ miles out of this last job at a local mechanic from the previous owner before any issues) and so I will let the larger problem slide for now!
This rotor was awesome although I have no way to tell what brand rotor this is. It's been turned once from what I can tell and it was a very good job which took little off it and got it perfectly flat. I'm hoping I can turn it one more time to fix it with enough life left (I don't believe in turning the last 30% rotor life for my kinda driving). If not, I have a brand new Brembo plain rotor set with Hawk HPS Street Pads on order being delivered tomorrow anyway!
BTW, the local Meineke's and Firestone's wanted ~$200 for the pad plus rotor resurfacing (quoted without inspection!) which sounded reasonable for being quoted to the typical customer over the phone although I have no doubts that the moment they did the "inspection", they would have done everything they could to stick new rotors to me for the cost of an arm and a leg!. That said, the guy in the local Midas was definitely on a high - quoted $480 (over the phone without inspection nor did I describe the condition to him) for the pad replacement, $560 for new pads + rotor resurfacing and $700 for new pads and rotors. Labor included! They had a 50% off coupon online, with which the above prices would be cut in half, but still way higher than Meineke and Firestone!
"OEM" rotors and pads in the above quotes.
I decided to risk it and drive back the 30 miles to home taking back roads with blinkers on and using a combination of engine braking, parking brake and the regular brakes (although needed only sparingly due to backroads and low speeds). I opted against using the braking power from the car on the front which I decided was a wise move!
Glad that others sharing the road with me got to their homes safely! leaving me $200 to spend on the DIY brake job. New Brembo rotors and the HPS pads run $180 delivered and I might not even have to use the new rotors in which case I will just return or stock up on the Brembo rotors. Went ahead and ordered them anyways because I cannot afford the extended downtime on the car waiting for the new rotors to be shipped and delivered were it to be determined later that the existing ones cannot be turned. Better have a spare rotor set at hand rather than keeping the car down waiting for delivery on the rotors if the current ones can't be turned!
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but do please share any pointers on the problem(s) in the second pic.
It could be the slide pins just stuck as you mentioned. Maybe bend caliper bracket but that's unusual. Normally, the inside pads next to the piston wear a bit faster than the outside pads. I would spend a few more money on new hardware kit with clips, rubber boots, and slide pins, synthetic brake fluid DOT 3/4, and good brake lube. After 11 years or so, those parts needs some freshen up. It's a V6 so it should have rear disc, no adjustment. With rear drums, I usually readjusted them when I do the front brakes.
BTW, I don't know how much I saved doing my own brake instead of sending it to Meineke and Firestone. Their prices are crazy.
Was planning on the Centric premium rotors, but I received a very slightly warped one for my Odyssey from Amazon.com (ever so slightly noticeable at highway speeds). So went with Brembo for $10 more per piece.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuko
It could be the slide pins just stuck as you mentioned.
The pins do seem to be moving freely and the last job (per the previous owner) involved a caliper system overhaul at a claimed competent shop. It's well documented. In fact, everything about this car is very well documented. Very well maintained. 160K mostly highway miles when I bought it from the original owner and has 200K miles on it now, but still runs smoother than my 2003 brand new camry did on day 1. I am smitten by the ride quality and handling on this car. Sorry, but to me, it puts a 2006 Avalon to shame in terms of sheer driveability!
That said, one of the sliding pins does look a bit worked up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuko
Maybe bend caliper bracket but that's unusual.
That is the larger problem I am talking about. Not only is the wear much quicker on one of the pads, it's at a slight angle one end to another suggesting an alignment issue between the rotor and the caliper assembly mount. But I think I can live with it as I did get 30K+ miles without any issue which seems reasonable.
What I am more concerned about is that one of the pads wore down completely while the other one looks like it has about 30% life left. Either the previous mechanic played dirty and reused a pad or something else is going on. Given the over all condition of the assembly, I'm suspecting foul play by the previous mechanic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuko
Normally, the inside pads next to the piston wear a bit faster than the outside pads.
Exactly what I was expecting, but isn't the case here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuko
After 11 years or so, those parts needs some freshen up.
Actually, the previous owner did a geat job maintaining the car. It's all well documented and that guy spent almost about 50% of the car price just on maintenance over the years. One of the reasons I bought it. All highway miles, well maintained including all major services, all leather, XLE, V6, etc. etc....and a great price. what's not to like?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuko
BTW, I don't know how much I saved doing my own brake instead of sending it to Meineke and Firestone. Their prices are crazy.
Honestly, I am one of those guys who wastes time to actually go down to the local discount tire shop on three different tire replacement occasions across two cars in 2 years, asking them to price match a tire set price online fully knowing that they won't get there 100%. I just feel like I have to play my part in the local economy. I even paid $50 more in one of the three occasions just because they are super when it comes to balancing and rotations later on. Given the emergency, I would have probably done it at the Firestone/Meineke if they would have given me a reason to believe that they will stick to it. Experience and common sense said to me that there is no way these guys are sticking to their original quotes once they see what's going on. And once the car is up on the lift, there's not much I can do! In hindsight, I think I made the right choice driving back home. Risky, but a calculated, informed one with mitigating measures in place.
Thanks a bunch for your inputs.
Others, do please share your thoughts. If this problem continues with this next brake job, I am practically wasting 20% of the pads usable life.
Experience and common sense said to me that there is no way these guys are sticking to their original quotes once they see what's going on. And once the car is up on the lift, there's not much I can do! In hindsight, I think I made the right choice driving back home. Risky, but a calculated, informed one with mitigating measures in place.
I have been down that road one too many times; rip-off on tires, brakes, and oil changes. That's why I begin to do my own oil changes and slowing begun to fix everything on the car myself; timing belts, gaskets, shocks, struts, you name it. I even borrow my old high school’s tire machine to replace my tires after Firestone ripped me off. We all just want to find ways to save money. But if everyone was like that, technicians would be out of jobs.
Having say that, I spent extra on good oil, tires, and parts. I mostly save on the labor cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgsbikes
BTW, what's with the Manufacturing country on the Brembo's? Any manufacturing quality issues?
Some say Brembo rotors are from Italy, but other say from China. Guess we'll know when there arrive. The cross-drills are known to crack but heard no problems with the plain ones.
wow, that was worn at such an uneven angle. assuming the slide pins are moving freely, compressing the caliper at an angle can cause things to bind.
You are right. An uneven piston pressure could result in the angle. But I can live with that.
The problem that I am looking to fix though is that one pad wearing out completely whereas the other still has 30%+ life left on it. Any idea why that's happening and how can that be fixed?
well, the uneven pressure can cause the binding and the pieces not to return freely therefore wearing the outside pad at a higher rate than the inside. even though you can live with this angle, this is probably the cause for uneven pad wear. especially the more severe the angle that is worn, the more binding and sticking that can occur.
Yeah, probably seized anchor pin(s). Try pulling on the pins with two fingers. If you can't move them then they are considered seized. Also Hawk HPS may handle heat better, but I think Akebono ProAct ceramic is a good choice for typical driving. I think there are weak complaints with HPS, even if these are supposed to be performance pads.
My guess is the previous mechanic probably sprayed brake cleaner and OP now has solvent inside the anchor pin hole messing up the grease and swelling up the rubber. I'd change out the pin boots and remove the little rubber bushing on one of the pins. Use Permatex Ceramic Extreme grease after cleaning the parts with brake cleaner (don't spray on the rubber parts) and wait until completely dry.
BTW, what's with the Manufacturing country on the Brembo's? Any manufacturing quality issues?
The rear Brembo rotors I got from Amazon were made in Italy the front Brembos I purchased from ebay were made in Mexico. I have heard that they now have some made in China.
Update on the mfg country on the Brembos I got - Made in China.
Slider Pins:
Since 2 out of 4 were stickier than the others, I was thinking it might be the slider pins causing the excessive wear on the outside pad. Looks like it's the consensus. So I am going to clean them out.
Need some help with the process though. Can the experienced review the below and comment?
1. Take the pins out noting which one goes where (in case the bushings on the pins are different). Clean them with brake cleaner spray. Dry completely before relube/reassembly.
2. This one has multiple questions. So please note. The boots look good. No tears. Do you think it's a good idea to try and pry them out wedging a flat screw driver between the torque plate body and the boot retainer rings? Will they be reusable if I get them out without tears? Can replacements be easily purchased at local stores like Napa, Autozone or Kragen/O'Rielly?
3. Clean the Sliding pin chambers using brake cleaner spray. Dry completely before reassembly.
4. Lube all parts using the same synthetic grease that is to be used for pad backs and support plates. Lube just the slider pins and not the chambers.
5. Put it all back together.
Need some help with the process though. Can the experienced review the below and comment?
Did I get it right? Anything don'ts / missing?
Everything sounds good. If there's no tear in the boots, I wouldn't worry about it. I bleed the brake fluid after each pad change; it's not necessary but that's just me.
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I take full responsibility for letting it get this far in-spite of obvious signs.
Had the below not happened, I definitely would have got another few thousand miles out of it. 
Guess we'll know when there arrive. The cross-drills are known to crack but heard no problems with the plain ones.
Linear Mode
