Blown Head Gasket?? :(

[ruffryder876]

Hey guys,

I have a 99 camry with 285XXX kms on it. Couple of months ago i noticed the radiator was leaking and got it swapped. After a few days the bottom hose from the radiator to the thermostat popped and all the coolant drained out. I got it checked and fixed. Later, I noticed the coolant was boiling in the top hose going into the radiator. A week later noticed the coolant level was low and soon after found that the new radiator started to leak. Changed the radiator again and still noticed the boiling in the top hose. Got it checked by the mechanic and everything seemed fine. Again the whole process repeated itself... loss of coolant and a few days later leaking radiator. Now my mechanic says the head gasket is blown. I am not sure if its the head gasket or not.

Some of the things that have been checked:
-Mechanic says he performed the pressure test and that it was ok.
-The oil is clean... no water droplets or change in colour.
-Coolant hasn't changed colour (no milky colour)
-The car does not over heat except for the one time that it almost ran out of coolant.
-The car does not smoke.

I haven't been driving the car but, it ran perfectly before i parked it because i didn't want to take a chance with it.

Do these symptoms point to a blown head gasket? What else could it be?

Thanks in advance

[JohnGD]

A radiator shop should be able to do an exhaust gas in coolant test using a tool and test fluid like this:
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/hea..._leak_test.htm

The top hose is the engine outlet hose, coming from the engine into the radiator. The lower hose with the thermostat is the engine inlet hose, from the radiator back to the engine. What does the temperature gauge say?

How's the thermostat and radiator cap? Why did the lower hose pop off?

Where are the new radiators leaking from?

[ruffryder876]

The temperature gauge reads normal, stays at the half way mark when running and the car warms up normally. Don't know why the lower hose originally popped off... nothing obvious. when the mechanic put it back on everything seemed ok and back to normal.

Not sure about the radiator cap... is there any way of checking it or just replacing it?
The thermostat seems ok as the car never overheats based on what i know if the thermostats sticks... car overheats. . The mechanic checked the overall system when he swapped the radiator and didnt mention anything.

Both radiators were leaking at the bottom.

Originally Posted by JohnGD

A radiator shop should be able to do an exhaust gas in coolant test using a tool and test fluid like this:
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/hea..._leak_test.htm

The top hose is the engine outlet hose, coming from the engine into the radiator. The lower hose with the thermostat is the engine inlet hose, from the radiator back to the engine. What does the temperature gauge say?

How's the thermostat and radiator cap? Why did the lower hose pop off?

Where are the new radiators leaking from?

[fenixus]

perhaps a stuck close thermostat? just shooting ideas on what else might be worth checking ...

it's weird the coolant boils same way on 2 new rads ... if coolant boils then loss in level is normal as some of it will be either spit out through the vent on return tank or it will evaporate (steam away) fast.

good thing there is no leaks in system on the new rad. I honestly doubt you have a bad head gasket ... yet. I wouldn't run it too much until coolant properly circulates and doesn't boil anymore.

JohnGD suggested a good test to check if exhaust gasses are present in coolant (looks like air bubbles).

is it a V6 or 4 cylinder? they have opposite direction of coolant flow between the two.
water inlet pipe on 4 cylinder is located at radiator top (thermostat under alternator) while V6 1mz-fe has the water inlet pipe (hose at radiator bottom) on the driver (LH) side of engine, buried under bunch of other stuff.

when was the last time someone checked/replaced the thermostat with its gasket? it's only $18 for new OEM parts (online dealer), but a few hours of labor on top of that (at least for V6).

other cheap thing as mentioned, get a new radiator cap from dealer (go OEM on this one please), it's only a few bucks and takes 5 seconds to replace (do it on cold car). it's a cap sitting on top of rad (4 cylinder model). your aftermarket rad probably has an aftermarket rad cap.

V6 models have rad cap actually on engine, not on rad itself

and the last thing which comes to my mind ... did someone check that water pump actually spins and has the fins intact (and not e.g. corroded)? when was the timing belt and water pump replaced for the last time?

[JohnGD]

I'd just replace the radiator cap and thermostat when replacing the radiator. I wouldn't place trust with the mechanic if a hose would pop off after he worked on it.

It's rare both new radiators leak from the bottom. Or is it coolant from elsewhere collecting there? Say dripping from the lower radiator hose?

Originally Posted by ruffryder876

The temperature gauge reads normal, stays at the half way mark when running and the car warms up normally. Don't know why the lower hose originally popped off... nothing obvious. when the mechanic put it back on everything seemed ok and back to normal.

Not sure about the radiator cap... is there any way of checking it or just replacing it?
The thermostat seems ok as the car never overheats based on what i know if the thermostats sticks... car overheats. . The mechanic checked the overall system when he swapped the radiator and didnt mention anything.

Both radiators were leaking at the bottom.

[ruffryder876]

Its a 4 cyl.

I don't think the head gasket is blown either. The radiator cap and the thermostat seem like quick fixes i can take care of. But, i still have the leaking radiator with which i can't run it. Either way these are inexpensive components that i can do anyways.

The water pump and timing belt was done at the beginning of 2010 so about 40k-50k kms ago. I am not sure if my mechanic actually checked those components. The weird thing is the car runs perfectly fine and i wudnt even know there was an issue with the car unless I check the coolant spill underneath the car.

Originally Posted by fenixus

perhaps a stuck close thermostat? just shooting ideas on what else might be worth checking ...

it's weird the coolant boils same way on 2 new rads ... if coolant boils then loss in level is normal as some of it will be either spit out through the vent on return tank or it will evaporate (steam away) fast.

good thing there is no leaks in system on the new rad. I honestly doubt you have a bad head gasket ... yet. I wouldn't run it too much until coolant properly circulates and doesn't boil anymore.

JohnGD suggested a good test to check if exhaust gasses are present in coolant (looks like air bubbles).

is it a V6 or 4 cylinder? they have different direction of coolant flow between the two.
water inlet pipe on 4 cylinder is located at radiator top (thermostat under alternator) while V6 1mz-fe has the water inlet pipe (hose at radiator bottom) on the passenger side of engine, buried under bunch of other stuff.

when was the last time someone checked/replaced the thermostat with its gasket? it's only $18 for new OEM parts (online dealer), but a few hours of labor on top of that.

other cheap thing as mentioned, get a new radiator cap from dealer (go OEM on this one please), it's only a few bucks and takes 5 seconds to replace (do it on cold car). it's a cap sitting on top of rad (4 cylinder model). your aftermarket rad probably has an aftermarket rad cap.

V6 models have rad cap actually on engine, not on rad itself

and the last thing which comes to my mind ... did someone check that water pump actually spins and has the fins intact (and not e.g. corroded)? when was the timing belt and water pump replaced for the last time?

[ruffryder876]

Yeah i know what your saying about the work of my mechanic... it wasnt the first issue i had after the radiator job... he had forgotten to connect the leads for the fan sensors!!! the fan stayed on all the time and i noticed it on the drive back home from the shop and had to take it back.

First time i noticed a leak i though the same thing about the leak at a different spot. but didnt notice anything and the lower hose seemed clean.

[JohnGD]

Also check the rubber hose from the radiator neck to the coolant reservoir. Make sure the coolant isn't leaking from there and collecting at the bottom of the radiator.

[ruffryder876]

oh and the radiator cap doesn't seem to be new... looks the old one that I had so I'm going to change that.

[fenixus]

did the mechanic do the coolant pressure test? it's the easiest way to pinpoint cooling system leaks. perhaps both rad hoses are bad already, e.g. cracked on ends and allowing air in and drip some coolant out?

lack of pressure in cooling system will make it boil much easier, same regarding a faulty rad cap.

to replace the thermostat you would need to drain the coolant anyways, so it might be a good idea to replace both rad hoses too, especially that one tends to slip off and other one had a boiling coolant in it ...

[ruffryder876]

I can change the hoses, the thermostat, the rad cap and the radiator as well but im just worried about ruining another radiator.

The pressure test was done by the mechanic and he said the rad was leaking. He didn't say anything about the head gasket. I think i need a second opinion.

Does anyone know any other good mechanic in the Greater Toronto Area?

I found a DIY for the 3rd gen radiator change and I think its a good guideline for the gen4 as well. Any other DIYs on this?

[JohnGD]

Let's see if you can identify the source of the leak. Hopefully it's quick and easy.

Another source at the bottom of the radiator could be the fan switch. If the old switch was moved over without using teflon (solid tape or paste sealer), then the leak could come from there too.

[fenixus]

start with cheapest thing and least labor intensive, so replace the rad cap first and track down the leak from rad. is it still under warranty?

you could try temporarily fixing the leak if it is coming from rad bottom, e.g. cracked plastic tank (if they are plastic) with some epoxy glue and re-check everything.

I agree on getting a second opinion before you start investing more serious money into repairs.

[ldballoon4]

If all else fails DONT FORGET TO REPLACE THE TEMPERATURE SENSORS!!
My 95 Camry did the same, replaced with new radiator, and the new one started to leak 1 month later. Luckily it was in the winter time so it did not matter as much cuz the engine stayed cold.

On my 95 there is a temp sensor on the engine and one at the bottom of the radiator, plus to be sure, replace the themostat.

Godd Luck

[beige97camry]

something you should do is find a new mechanic or at least quit going to the current one, cut your loses on him and move on.