'02 Solara SLE security immobilizer madness 1 working transponder

[fenixus]

ehhh, decided to open new thread, maybe someone who had such problems would find it and chime in ...

bacground info:
2002 Solara SLE immobilizer system is same as on any 97-01 Camry XLE with immobilizer. it's a simple Type 1 system.

long story short:
immobilizer on my car stopped recognizing master key transponder and from 2 working ignition keys I ended up with only one, but working now as a valet key.

went to dealer for diagnostics and they said ECM is not communicating with something, but wiring is good. they wanted to charge me $1350 for new ECM and labor on re-programming keys I already had (now have 3 of them), so I said no.

bought a used ECM just like mine on ebay at $60 and got it unlocked at locksmith at $150+s/h. unlocking is actually some kind of reflash procedure and it returns the ECM immobilizer programming to factory defaults just like it was before any keys were added/programmed.

I followed instructions on "programming keys" into a factory fresh ECM which are as easy as inserting keys into ignition lock one by one and waiting 5 seconds after each for ECM to write the transponder code down... but the ECM stopped programming procedure after first key...

end result, only first key got programmed (different than on other ECM) and ECM does not accept anymore keys.

tried adding more keys following the manual brake/gas pedal "programming" and it does not work. simply because the only working ignition key is (again) not a master, but rather a valet key

so now I have 2 ECM's and each one has its own working ignition key, but none of them allows programming more ... what's going on here?

I seriously doubt that ECM (neither of them) is at any fault here, but what is then?

here are instructions on programming this immobilizer, they do not work for me (used to work in past):
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...58&postcount=7

[pmesfun]

I think the ECUs are good also, maybe the alarm ECU is bad and the dealer just wanted to make some mulah?

[fenixus]

well I am not sure, all they said was "there is no communication between Engine Control Module and security device, but the wiring checks out, so you need a new ECM"

I too was thinking thinking that maybe the alarm ECU is bad then. but hey, both my remote key fobs work flawlessly, so I dug up electrical diagrams for immobilizer circuit on 01 solara 1mz-fe. and guess what, alarm ECU is not there, so it doesn't even play any role here, it's a separate circuit.

there is even no fuses or relays I could check, because the ones taking part in immobilizer authorization process are EFI relay & fuse (both must be good, no other option as car runs great) and fuse for ignition switch, since ignition switch works then it must be good too.

all the rest is junction connectors between above and ECU (must be good) and connections between Ignition switch and ECU and transponder amplifier (all must good, otherwise I wouldn't be able to start the car at all with any keys ever) ...

but then I googled this site:
http://forum.obdchina.com/viewthread...&extra=&page=2

and there is this quote (on communication errors in immobilizer for corolla 03):

EXAMPLE : FAULT CODE B2796 COMMUNICATION MALFUNCTION NO. 1 DISPLAYED -
INVESTIGATION REVEALED ALL KEYS CLEARED FROM IMMOBILISER BUT UNABLE
TO REGISTER KEY IN IGNITION. WRONG KEY SELECTED. CORRECT KEY
REGISTERED WHEN INSERTED.

... so maybe I am fooled by one of keys which has a bad transponder? for instance the cheap ebay key from Taiwan that seemed to go bad after a few months and then everything started?

not sure, exchanging emails with locksmith, maybe he will do the reflash again for me and I will try again without the suspected key this time?
fact is that keys programming got stopped the moment I inserted that ebay key into ignition (right after programmed the new key from dealer)... really not sure and have a terrible headache now ...

Originally Posted by pmesfun

I think the ECUs are good also, maybe the alarm ECU is bad and the dealer just wanted to make some mulah?

[fenixus]

well I am stumped. I have found diagnostic codes and procedures for immobilizer in Diagnostics manual and all codes related to "no communication" or "communication malfunction" say to check the wiring and then replace transponder amplifier before replacing the ECM.

generally the trouble area for all codes is similar, but procedures differ a bit:
-key
-wiring between amplifier and the ECM
-transponder amplifier (it's installed on ignition cylinder)
-immobilizer ECU (which is in the engine's ECU/ECM in this case)

the question is, is it safe to assume the amplifier works correctly? could it be the case that all keys are read as valet keys by error? it has to work to some extent as ECM is able to recognize a registered keys vs unregistered ... but can it tell the difference between Master and Valet? or it's obvious, either works or not, nothing in between ... I dunno

or rather a faulty transponder in the ebay key causes the madness as it was always used in programming attempts every time so far... and then did the dealer try to rule out some keys?

either way I think the dealer took a long shot (and wanted to jump on my wallet) by assuming the ECM needs to be replaced ... something doesn't add up... all I know is the wiring checked out and ECMs are probably good, that leaves the amplifier and keys.

I think I will call them up tomorrow and try to pull the information which error code they saw exactly ... and why they assumed it must be the ECM.

so far I lean toward thinking it's the damn ebay key ... don't know how to tell for sure if amplifier is good or not...

[pmesfun]

Could the ebay key damage the amplifier?

[fenixus]

I have no idea if this is possible.

Originally Posted by pmesfun

Could the ebay key damage the amplifier?

[fenixus]

talked with dealer and the guy said the amplifier must be working, otherwise the primary communication with immobilizer would be down and I wouldn't be able to start the car at all with any keys.

I asked for error code, he said he's not sure if technicians wrote it down (WTF?), but he will check and call me back.

After I told him I have another ECM and similar problem, he's trying to convince me there is a problem with my car (and what happened to the wiring which checked out?)...

so finally I told him that I think one of my transponder keys is bad and interrupts the programming procedure prematurely, he went silent ... seems they haven't checked the basic possibility... great.

wondering if they have the immobilizer error code from diagnostics, that is if they ever hooked up a scanner to my car at all ...

anyways, from good news, Locksmith Charley (who was the first to say the keys may be the problem) agreed to flash it again for free, just need to cover the shipping

Since my old ECM still works fine with old original Toyota key, and "new" ECM now works fine with the new original Toyota key, it leaves out only the ebay key as the root cause ... unless there are other factors in play here ...

... I hate problems that even dealers cannot troubleshoot properly

[JohnGD]

So your next step is trying the reflahsed ECU with OEM keys and no FleaBay stuff?

(Looks like your Solaras only like OEM stuff )

[pmesfun]

What brand is the Ebay key, mine is Stratec.

[fenixus]

yes precisely

seems my both solaras are very picky on aftermarket parts usually they start screaming and yelling at me sooner or later unless the parts are OEM

Originally Posted by JohnGD

So your next step is trying the reflahsed ECU with OEM keys and no FleaBay stuff?

(Looks like your Solaras only like OEM stuff )

[fenixus]

no idea. it carries a Toyota logo, but it's a fake.

blade is sitting deeper in the rubber top, the difference between it and true OEM is around 1mm in the length of blade.

it doesn't matter for ignition lock because the keys never go fully deep.
however blade metal is different, slightly darker than OEM.

I bought it from here IIRC:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-U...Q5fAccessories

I think it has some other cheap version of transponder inside, far from oem...

I use the same keys (from same seller) on other solara (no immobilizer) just for looks, because it's such a good fake than sometimes even dealers can't tell the difference hehe

Originally Posted by pmesfun

What brand is the Ebay key, mine is Stratec.

[fenixus]

of course the dealer (East Coast Toyota service dept in Carlstadt, NJ) has never called me back ... maybe they will on Monday ... but I somehow doubt it. WTF is wrong with people around here that they never call back???

I am honestly thinking about changing the dealership, this one sucks every time I want some service done.
every time they either lie to me or they don't know entirely what they are doing ... whichever is worse ... so lame ...

[fenixus]

shit.

Tried again programming two OEM keys on (again) re-flashed used replacement ECM and same problem. I can successfully program the first key, but the moment I insert second key the process gets interrupted grrrrr ... and I end up having one key programmed as valet (not possible to program anymore unless it gets re-flashed again).

so far I have 2 ECMs, each one having its own ignition key LOL , better than nothing haha

not sure if I want to pursue it any further, sinking too much money into that ...

in spare time will check the ignition cylinder and transponder amplifier over there, if time allows, will re-check wiring ... something is wrong or loose ... or I have 2 same bad ECMs!!!

... I have a feeling that someone was messing around with that amplifier ... perhaps there is something messed up by the FL ingenious car electrician who f**ked up the rest of under hood wiring in past (his lousy work and mistakes cost me new OEM front end wiring harness and a used ABS pump+ECU from ebay so far)? need to see it. it doesn't sound too good ... on top of fact that I completely mistrust my local dealership ...

[fenixus]

this is to describe how the (failed) transponder keys auto-registration process looks like on "virgin" ECM (my car has immobilizer ECU built-in to engine's ECU/ECM).

After install of virgin ECM on car, the Security LED on dash blinks (like it normally does when there is no recognized key in ignition).

After I insert the first key into ignition cylinder, the LED gives me 2 quick blinks and then turns solid red (transponder Auto-registration mode)

After I remove the first key (about 5 seconds passed), the LED stays on, like it's supposed to in auto-registration mode.

The moment I insert the second key into ignition cylinder the LED starts blinking (immobilizer no longer in auto-registration mode). It should blink once to confirm it sees a new key and then should stay solid red, and again for the third key. it should start blinking continuously only after all 3 keys have been accepted.

It doesn't do that however... and I tried that twice already.
thankfully locksmith is not charging me for re-re-flashes

I'm going crazy with it... have a few ideas to check soon in spare time before I try again the re-flashed (called "virgin" by locksmiths) ECM.

Need to check 3 magical wires going between Transponder key amplifier and ECM. they are labeled as TXCT, RXCK and CODE. they are direct wires, no junction connectors, no fuses.
These are the ONLY means of communication between amplifier and the ECM. of course there are other wires like ground connections and wiring for Security LED and Unlock switch and such, but all that stuff works. I am only worried about immobilizer communications.

Other part worth checking may be the Transponder key coil installed on the ignition cylinder (connected with or a part of transponder amplifier). I am now wondering if maybe the key coil is failing here and sending bullshit signals (e.g. too much noise) confusing the ECU?

By the way the re-flash they do affects only the EEPROM chip responsible for immobilizer programming. It leaves the other ECM circuits and chips intact.

Really, if anyone have some thought, please post, because all this doesn't make much sense ... all works and yet I cannot have more than one working ignition key... why the hell I cannot have a working master key??

since mid-Winter, only 1 key works and is recognized as a valet key.
the (Sec LED stays on for 2 secs then goes off upon key insertion).
with a recognized master key, the Sec LED goes off instantly (no delay) upon insertion.

[fenixus]

I am in contact with a guy (electronic magician locksmith) who said it's possible to add the transponder key codes (implant them) into a virgin immobilizer dump file (one locksmiths use for reflash) and flash the immobilizer chip with it.
after process is done all keys are already registered in computer's memory.

only problem with it is that it requires a special TIRIS transponder reader device to read data from transponder keys. seems my locksmith (Arizona guy) has no clue what I'm talking about... still waiting for a reply from him ... maybe at least he can read the TIRIS transponder data (if he has a reader), then I could send it to the other guy who would prepare a plug-n-play flash file and send it back to the first locksmith who would flash it to my computer. easy, eh?

I could actually buy an EEPROM programmer and SOIC-8 adapter for it and flash the virgin immobilizer dump file (working on getting a copy of it) myself ... I could have gone this way first, price seems same as I paid already to Arizona locksmith

only problem is getting a hold of TIRIS data reader.