Stuck Thermostat and the Toyota Dealer Service Dept. From Hell

[terrortot]

So I'm driving my '95 Camry in a New York City 40 miles from home and my check engine light goes on and I see the temperature gauge red-lining. Finding parking is a nightmare, but I eventually find a street spot and I pop the hood. There's no steam or smoke or evident leaking but after the engine cools, I need to add coolant. Other than running (very) hot, the car is running fine. I manage to limp over to the nearest Toyota dealership (It's 4:30 p.m. on a Sunday) and they say they'll look at it the next day.

On the phone, Monday, they say they need to do a "complete diagnostic" for $230 -- I okay it after my regular service dealer says that sounds reasonable.

So this is what $230 dollars gets me when I ask for diagnostic printout and an itemized estimate:

http://i.imgur.com/l6mwO.jpg

Such a nightmare -- I noted no leaking and I'm pretty sure the real problem is a just a stuck thermostat. The stuck thermostat is blocking the coolant flow. Period.

I expect I'll be going in tomorrow to haggle down the price on the diagnostic and get the car towed up home to be worked on by my regular dealer's service shop. I can't trust a shop to fix a part they cannot spell.

That printout is something I had to wait 5 hours for them to get to me on Tuesday. I'm pretty sure the "Service Advisor" I was talking to is functionally illiterate, and I am not confident they even did more than a cursory check.

[fenixus]

I would tow it away from them back home and tackled it myself.

water pump gasket might have went bad after engine block overheated. if it's due for timing too then you should do a complete timing job with all seals and gaskets as well. your own dealer will not do this for much less than other dealer (if same items are included).

on a side note, last time I paid $120 for immobilizer/transponder keys re-programming, they couldn't do it and said my ECM is bad and quoted me $1350 for a new one. I replaced it with a used unlocked one and same problem ... appears one of transponder keys is bad ... and I paid $120 for that troubleshooting done by an idiot.

just my 2 cents.

[JohnGD]

When the engine heats up like that I'd change out all rubber seals and gaskets you can. When was the last "complete" timing belt job that includes the pulleys, oil seals, and the water pump? The water pump should be changed as well.

Will you be able to do some of the work yourself? For example can you pull the thermostat?

[96ToyoCam164K]

Originally Posted by terrortot

On the phone, Monday, they say they need to do a "complete diagnostic" for $230 -- I okay it after my regular service dealer says that sounds reasonable.

So this is what $230 dollars gets me when I ask for diagnostic printout and an itemized estimate:

That's highway robbery...

I don't understand why these dealers charge all that money when you've got tons of 95 and 96 Camry's in the junkyard. The coolant system is not a complicated matter on these cars and I've pulled thermostats, had radiators changed and even my fan wires stopped working at one point. Fixed for less than $230 by a indie mechanic, not 'diagnosed'.

If you believe it's a stuck thermostat, there's a DIY here and you can have that out within an hour...

[mail2_jb]

When my thermostat was stuck open, my engine didn't get overheated (i didn't drive too far though. As soon as I see the CEL, I came back home (within 10-15 miles) and repalced my thermostat. All you need is a wrench and new thermostat and gasket.
So easy a caveman....well, except toyota stealerships %$##%$loes. I would tow that car asap and tell them to kiss your rear end for 2K.
I went for a wheel alignment and even knowing all their tricks, I fell for some services that I think was absolutely DIY or not needed. All in all it cost me $700 to top of all fluids and replace a gasket. On the phone the advisor told it would be disaster to drive my car (92k) and I need to fix these "problems" soon. Since it is already on the lift, they can do this within 2 hours as a "courtesy" to toyota loyalists like me...When I got the bill, all I see was top of fluids (ps, coolant,brake), wheel alignment check (nothing needed), replace a gasket (don't remember which one) and an offer for a bottle of water.
Never went again to them for anything. Lesson learned the hard way.

[Mike Gerber]

"When my thermostat was stuck open, my engine didn't get overheated"

Just an FYI to avoid future confusion. When a thermostat is stuck open your car will not overheat; it will do the opposite. It will be very slow to warm up, if it ever does reach normal operating temperature. It's when your thermostat is stuck in the closed postion that the car overheats.

Mike

[RningOnFumes]

^ good point.

Sounds like you might just get away with changing out the thermostat. (a quick fix in place of other maintenance associated with the coolant system)

My question is if you have a 15 year old car, why is the dealership your first stop? --(at home).

[96ToyoCam164K]

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

"When my thermostat was stuck open, my engine didn't get overheated"

Just an FYI to avoid future confusion. When a thermostat is stuck open your car will not overheat; it will do the opposite. It will be very slow to warm up, if it ever does reach normal operating temperature. It's when your thermostat is stuck in the closed postion that the car overheats.

Mike

I think that's what happened to me. I ended up having to pull my new thermostat twice earlier this year because it was cold outside, and the temp. gauge went DOWN. Like, way down I thought it was going to do a 180. I thought maybe I had it in backwards, did the job all over again and it still happened. Eventually I just drove off and it warmed up and never happened again.