3VZ-FTE build - planning this out!

[Gothmog3VZ]

Hey, my fellow TN's.

So, this summer, seems like things are going to go well for me work-wise, so I'm planning on turboing my car (93 Camry - E53 with a 3VZ-FE), but there's a few things I wanted to ask.

beforehand though, here's my basic plan
1) I'm doing this on a budget. Not a "Hey, let's buy all this shit on ebay and try crank 400whp" budget, but a "Let's get the basic plumbing installed/going and then slowly improve/upgrade it" kind of thing. Thinking a 7m-sourced CT26 for the turbo, going to run a TMIC, and for engine management, *was* leaning towards an APEXI SAFC-I - It's been told to me by multiple people that it's not a good ecu if you're planning a boosted build, soooo looking at alternatives now

I've done my research on the motor, and the internals are good up to 350 hp (at which point pistons need to be replaced. after that, good to 450 hp, but irrelevant at this point), which means a mild setup (240-250 whp) will not pose any issues whatsoever. Fresh clutch (exedy stage 1) so that's covered as well.

2) Before anyone posts, I know I titled this thread 3vz-gte. I plan on getting the intake system ported, from plenum to heads. hence the G.


Now, to the business.


1) AFM related - Just to be certain, I'd have to run a pull-through system (mount afm in front of turbo inlet), correct?

2) Just want to double check part list

1. CT26 (from a 7M supra)
2. Piggyback ECU (Currently mapECU)
3. Intercooler (going with TMIC for now)
4. Map sensor (pending)
5. Wastegate and BOV
6. Boost controller (ct26 shouldn't boost that much, but just in case)
7. Boost gauge, AFR meter, and EGT, along with water temp
8. Engine mounts (not really "neccesary", but might as well get it done)
9. Custom headers/downpipe
10. Piping for the intake-side of system (the one thing I'm sourcing from eBay - metal pipe is metal pipe, and I'm not looking for some exotic titanium/tungsten sh!t lmao)
11. Supra TT injectors + walboro 255

If there's anything else I neglected to mention, ask/tell!

And any advice/input is appreciated

crossposted this from my OP on montrealracing, I'll be updating both as things pop up

[Chris Crash]

Advice, don't buy your turbo from Eric N.

Better advice, anything you buy over TN, do NOT pay for as a "gift" (as you can't dispute the charge), get shipping insurance AND a tracking number when they ship.

[bigbird]

nice project. if your not going to FMIC then id go with SMIC. your not gonna have much room to do it on top and thats where most of the heat under the hood sits. youll have to remove the stock airbox and relocate the battery so putting it there would be a pretty good idea and that still may not fit well.

the mounts will need to be upgraded or at the very least replaced, with the 5 speed youll tare up the mounts quick and risk tranny damage from wheel hop.

make sure your AFR is a wideband.

the best place to learn about this will be on MR2OC.com where there are plenty of turbo 3vz guys.

also, you should put all this in an MR2 and not your camry.

[Luckynumber5]

You are going to have a miserable time tuning those injectors with an SAFC, they are useful on a car that comes with boost or one that doesn't. Not one that goes from na to forced induction.

[Gothmog3VZ]

Originally Posted by bigbird

nice project. if your not going to FMIC then id go with SMIC. your not gonna have much room to do it on top and thats where most of the heat under the hood sits. youll have to remove the stock airbox and relocate the battery so putting it there would be a pretty good idea and that still may not fit well.

the mounts will need to be upgraded or at the very least replaced, with the 5 speed youll tare up the mounts quick and risk tranny damage from wheel hop.

make sure your AFR is a wideband.

the best place to learn about this will be on MR2OC.com where there are plenty of turbo 3vz guys.

also, you should put all this in an MR2 and not your camry.

Not to mention that wheelhop is just plain annoying

And as for the MR2, well, I need something practical for a DD right now... But if anything were to happen to the camry... it would become an MR2 donor

Originally Posted by Luckynumber5

You are going to have a miserable time tuning those injectors with an SAFC, they are useful on a car that comes with boost or one that doesn't. Not one that goes from na to forced induction.

Yeah, I got that pointed out last night on MR so scratch the SAFC
the mapECU was suggested as a good piggyback for a boosted setup, so I'm thinking to go with that

[bigbird]

Originally Posted by Gothmog3VZ

Not to mention that wheelhop is just plain annoying

And as for the MR2, well, I need something practical for a DD right now... But if anything were to happen to the camry... it would become an MR2 donor

BINGO! you said what i knew was commin next. i HIGHLY suggest you scrap the whole idea because of that statement. custom turbo and reliable DD dont mix well for us. if ya really want to be smart about this, then think about another DD or leaving urs NA. i'd either use ur camry as a project (since it is the best platform for it) or the engine and trans from your camry and start a new project with the two most important components. if ya did the latter you could get an MR2 OR get a coupe and have an even better project that you can take your time with and still wont cost alot.

Yeah, I got that pointed out last night on MR so scratch the SAFC
the mapECU was suggested as a good piggyback for a boosted setup, so I'm thinking to go with that

why not just switch injectors? for 250whp the supra N/A injectors should work fine. at least they do for the SCed people.

[lemegacool]

i think the "g" in the engine name is for agressive cams and "f" is for economy cams so porting would not make a 3vzgte lol (i think)

i'm on the b stock mailing list at columbia river mandrel bending so i can get "not perfectly bended" alumized steel bends 50% off!

engine management i think aem fic is the way to go but unless you snag a deal on a used one it is quite expensive new around 400$

for the mounts get a delrin solid rear mount and the rest custom polyurethane

hehehe cant wait to see this!

also if you want a reliable fun daily driver i personally would not go over 5-6 psi! you could always up the boost later but i would start with real low boost so less chance of breaking something in case the tuning is wrong

[Gothmog3VZ]

actually, I found out, it's from the angle of the valves - F-heads are more vertical, whereas G-heads are to the side. Learn something new every day


and yep, mild boost is the plan start out nice and slow.


Took her to the strip this evening (combination of date and getting a baseline for performance stats - gotta be efficient!).
Consistent 16.4's (I've had better, but not complaining), beat a sentra, golf, and my buddy's cutlass with a 350 SBC that one was damn close though!

back on topic!

Not sure if FIC would work with OBD1, but if I can snag one, worth trying!




Bird, when I said practical, I meant I could hop in with a few friends and go cruising, tow a sailboat and carry windsurfing/kayaking equipment, and have something driveable year round I don;t mind having occasional down-time; as long as I don't blow out the crank or something, it's all good!

[the94camryman]

As little as I know about FI, I figured I'd add my two cents.
I'd imagine a TMIC works well on Subaru's because their hoods are vented, but on the Camry I'd recommend you go with a front mount, just for cooling issues. A side mount should be sufficient, as bigbird, said, but I'd imagine only where it can get sufficient air flow, such as where your stock air box and battery are located.

I've heard that the CT-26 runs out of breathe very quickly, so if you eventually want to get into higher numbers then I would definitely look into a bigger turbo. I've also read that RX-7 injectors work as well.

On any big project like this, I'd recommend that you go ahead and do it right instead of trying to upgrade parts as you go. Save a bit of cash, buy yourself another DD, and build your Camry all at once. Or if you're intent on doing this now, then buy yourself another engine and start piecing it all together. Once it's all put together then swap in the new engine and work on getting your electronics figured out.

These cars are not Civics. They can handle boost, but they are much more finicky.

Goodluck on your project. Hope to see you boosting down the road one day.

[lemegacool]

Originally Posted by Gothmog3VZ

actually, I found out, it's from the angle of the valves - F-heads are more vertical, whereas G-heads are to the side. Learn something new every day


and yep, mild boost is the plan start out nice and slow.


Took her to the strip this evening (combination of date and getting a baseline for performance stats - gotta be efficient!).
Consistent 16.4's (I've had better, but not complaining), beat a sentra, golf, and my buddy's cutlass with a 350 SBC that one was damn close though!

back on topic!

Not sure if FIC would work with OBD1, but if I can snag one, worth trying!




Bird, when I said practical, I meant I could hop in with a few friends and go cruising, tow a sailboat and carry windsurfing/kayaking equipment, and have something driveable year round I don;t mind having occasional down-time; as long as I don't blow out the crank or something, it's all good!

crap forgotten you had obd1 dont think it would work... but i could be wrong !

[Tony the Tiger]

Originally Posted by the94camryman

These cars are not Civics. They can handle boost, but they are much more finicky.

Never knock on Civics... Stock D16, or B16/B18's, or the new K20's can take way more boost than any Camry motor.

Hell, stock block record for a B16A is 720 WHP and 400 lbft of torque. Honda engines are actually one of the most stout motors when it comes to NA-to-turbo setups. I can't even think of another NA motor from the factory that can handle more than quadruple (almost 5x) more power over stock output on boost and actually lasting through the dyno session and over 10 passes at the track.

So no knocking on Civics, because it makes us Camry bunch look ignorant.

[Tony the Tiger]

Originally Posted by Gothmog3VZ

And any advice/input is appreciated

Aside from the general list of things, I actually suggest an E-manage Ultimate, because for your power level you will never outgrow the system.

MAP ECU is complicated, because it is trying to compensate a non-linear voltage curve (speed density) onto a linear curve (AFM), and at certain points of your fuel map, you will easily surpass a safe workable limit of the system.

For example, when a common 3-bar MAP sensor is seeing 0.50v, it is pressure-based so this would be roughly 16 inches of vacuum. At 5000RPM and at 0.50v, this would be light throttle at 5000RPM, but the engine still uses a lot of fuel due to the higher RPM's and much more airflow. The MAP sensor is putting out 0.50v whether the engine is at 2000RPM or at 5000RPM, because it is MAP.

However, on an AFM, it is airflow based, so at 5000RPM and light throttle, the sensor will put out around 1.50v instead. This difference for example, will require a big percentage of fueling correction just to make the car run properly if the car had a MAP sensor instead. It is doable on stock-sized injectors, but let's say you install injectors about 1.5x the size (420cc/min injectors), this gap widens and you will require much more % correction to tune the fuel. Thus, it is also why you hear really bad reviews on MAP ECU's and how difficult they are to tune. Good for a DIY system when you will be driving the car with a laptop basically everyday, but not good for a nice powerful DD standpoint.

As for the turbo selection, the CT26 may not be ideal for several reasons.... The flanges are oddly sized, so you must have custom flanges made, or source them out from factory manifolds and such. The turbo itself is physically large, and could be troublesome for a DIY turbo setup. The oiling connections are non-standard, so finding fittings is quite a chore. I would actually start out with an Ebay T3/T4, and then once all the plumbing and small issues are ironed out, then go with a nice GT30R or GT35R which will become a straight drop-in

Don't think Ebay kits are cheap.. Because none of the Ebay kits ever fit, most guys who end up buying Ebay turbo kits end up spending more than just buying a good kit from the start...LOL

[Gothmog3VZ]

alright, so hired at Performance Improvements, which gives me plenty of time to research my options.

Tony, I was looking into a turbo like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT35-...mZ170647926803

I like the idea of having an ebay unit while I get the system up and running, and get used to it. Will have to get said turbo balanced before I install, but other than that, seems like it should work.



Friend of mine bought himself an Evo about a month ago, came with some spare parts, so I've basically got a line on a forged BOV and possibly a few other parts.

[bigbird]

shit, i may have to retract my pervious suggestion. if your now employed at a performance shop then youve got all the resources one could want and a budget DIY setup is possible.

Originally Posted by Tony the Tiger

Never knock on Civics... Stock D16, or B16/B18's, or the new K20's can take way more boost than any Camry motor.



So no knocking on Civics, because it makes us Camry bunch look ignorant.

i think what he was implying that camrys can hold boost, but not as well as civics (and their motors). BTW, have you done any work on Honda "J" (V6) motors? if so i may want to ask ya a few questions if thats ok....over PM of course.

[lemegacool]

nice one for the job stef! i would like to work in a perf shop too lol :P

why not get a holset hy35/hx35/h1c? i'm currently hunting them on ebay muahahha