N/A Upgrades - Questions

[projektvertx]

Hey guys (and gals ),

So I'm going down the N/A path for power, as opposed to forced induction since I still need the Camry to be a reliable daily. The car is an auto with a 1MZ. Now before you go off on a tangeant about how I should do a 5 speed swap, don't bother mentioning it, 'cause it ain't happening unless my auto starts acting retarded So, I'll start off with my plan:

- 63mm throttle body (already on the way)
- Port and polished upper and lower intake manifolds (quote on the way)
- Underdrive crankshaft pulley (I'm still on the fence about this)
- TRD muffler (not so relevant, I know it doesn't do anything but change noise, but worth mentioning, shipping troubles, but it's on it's way)
- Currently pumping 93 octane fuel (despite gas prices, don't try and talk me out of this one too)

Now I know I started on the wrong end of things, I should have started with exhaust, but here are my questions:
- Should I consider a tune after all of the above is said and done?
- If a tune is necessary, 91 tune, or 93 tune? Or no tune at all?
- Since I'm going down the N/A path for more power, what else can I do, other than headers?

Since I haven't seen anyone walk the N/A walk before, let's talk N/A power upgrades people!

[Chris Crash]

For the P&P you might want to consider matching the head. It would be more work, but worth it.

I would also consider the OBX headers, as the 1MZ stock downpipe is CRAZY restrictive. If you've got the time and skill, you can try to make your own headers like I am.

Consider cam grinds while you've got the manifolds apart, Jim's fuel mod, and maybe a timing advance. I'm currently experimenting with my old 5SFE cams to see if I can hand grind them. If so, I'll let you know as they will be significantly cheaper than Webcam grinds.

Check out a transmission oil filter and cooler as well. Cooler oil is happier.

Weight reduction will be key here. Think about not just an underdrive pulley, but ALL pulleys. Lighter and smaller ones can be beneficial. Lighter, smaller rims. Suspension upgrades.

General maintenance is the start though.

[projektvertx]

Originally Posted by Chris Crash

For the P&P you might want to consider matching the head. It would be more work, but worth it.

I would also consider the OBX headers, as the 1MZ stock downpipe is CRAZY restrictive. If you've got the time and skill, you can try to make your own headers like I am.

Consider cam grinds while you've got the manifolds apart, Jim's fuel mod, and maybe a timing advance. I'm currently experimenting with my old 5SFE cams to see if I can hand grind them. If so, I'll let you know as they will be significantly cheaper than Webcam grinds.

Check out a transmission oil filter and cooler as well. Cooler oil is happier.

Weight reduction will be key here. Think about not just an underdrive pulley, but ALL pulleys. Lighter and smaller ones can be beneficial. Lighter, smaller rims. Suspension upgrades.

General maintenance is the start though.

I've heard the OBX header isn't exactly plug and play?

Let me know how your cam grind works out, I can pull a set and send 'em out to you! Trans cooler is definitly a good idea!

So, here's what I had in mind for the whole pulley situation, I want to put on a Highlander 130 amp alternator, and stick a small, lighter pulley? As for the suspension, I dunno, I think I'm as good as I can get short of coilovers... I'm trying for the sleeper look, so the less exterior mods to reflect, the better

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

I can make whatever size pulleys you need if you want to go that route - it's good to see someone else going the N/A route since there's not many of us...

[bigbird]

DONT waste your money! there are NO significant NA upgrades that would be worth the money aside from exhaust to make it sound better. if you do anything upgrade the ypipe and cat and stop there. P&P, bigger TB...all pointless and have been done before yeilding minor results. the 3vz is a much better NA motor and the most ive seen out of it was about 30whp with all that you mentioned and more. total coast was about teh same as a used SC kit these days.

i know im being a downer but with the auto your money and time will be wasted. unless u get these mods for near free its only gonna frustrate you.

[N/A Camry Sleeper]

How much power are you looking to gain with the intended setup? The more I think about it, the more ideas come to mind regarding stroking the 1MZ motor and using longer rods for a better rod ratio. Never seen anyone do this to the 1MZ - maybe you could be the first!

Personally for what it's worth I would look at finding some hotter cams, bump up the compression to 11.0:1 max, get some custom BME aluminum rods, titanium wrist pins (easily made), exhaust upgrade, 70mm TB, and port + polish (extrude hone?). After that is done to the motor, modify the ECU to redline at 8000-8500 RPM to take advantage of the extended power band. Did I mention oversize valves? Possibilities are endless if you have enough patience-time-imagination. If done right your new N/A motor will outlast the stocker for many years...

[bigbird]

your talking SO far out of his league, not to mention all of these items would cost more then buying three of his cars to do right, and its not even a 5 speed which is MOST important...not a smart investment if ya ask me. it requiers, time patience AND money or resources. NA is hard on a car with NO supporting NA mods. of course, it would be cool if ya started selling some of your NA parts youve designed, good work i think. Id love to run a built NA 1mz in an MR2.

boost has proven to be more reliable and cheaper then N/A thus far with these cars. im not knocking NA builds but it works with some and doesnt with others. the 1mz...SC, 190 fuel pump and your car will be nearly as reliable as it was without, even with an auto tranny...did it for nearly 50Kmiles up to 200K and it was still running fine.

but thats just my .02 cents

[projektvertx]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the late reply, I was in Chicago over the weekend But thanks for the well thought out replies guys, I appreciate it!!

N/A sleeper, while that is good advice, rebuilding the engine is a bit out of my league as Bigbird stated

Rob, my biggest fear with putting on a supercharger is that I spend 2-3K on the parts, and that I have to keep an open wallet for the inevitable failures that will follow due to boost, and another concern I have is also that I would need to go with supporting mods... So I guess your advice would be to just work on the exhaust end of things and call it a day? What is your take on a tune and a timing advance as Chris suggested? I've been told the lower intake manifold is restrictive on the 1MZ, any thoughts?

Again guys, thanks for the well thought out replies, I appreciate it This is exactly what I had hoped for when I started the thread

[Mister_Perkins]

if your only running at 4-5Psi I wouldnt even worry about running into engine problems. I could fart 5 psi

[bigbird]

Originally Posted by projektvertx

Hey guys,

Sorry for the late reply, I was in Chicago over the weekend But thanks for the well thought out replies guys, I appreciate it!!

N/A sleeper, while that is good advice, rebuilding the engine is a bit out of my league as Bigbird stated

Rob, my biggest fear with putting on a supercharger is that I spend 2-3K on the parts, and that I have to keep an open wallet for the inevitable failures that will follow due to boost, and another concern I have is also that I would need to go with supporting mods...

what supporting mods? youll need a 190lph pump, relocate your knock sensors (very cheap and easy) and the charger. you dont have to put on an exhaust or intake or anything. thoes just help make more power. the TRD charger was designed to run on a STOCK gen4 1mz. as far as reliability...i had my SC on my car for nearly 50K....and it was 150K when it was installed. my engine only suffered from that toyota favorite VC leak and nothign else. my money went to repairing everything BUT the engine and trans.

So I guess your advice would be to just work on the exhaust end of things and call it a day? What is your take on a tune and a timing advance as Chris suggested? I've been told the lower intake manifold is restrictive on the 1MZ, any thoughts?

Again guys, thanks for the well thought out replies, I appreciate it This is exactly what I had hoped for when I started the thread

with out FI or very high compression, a tune, P&P, Cams...ect wont do much. it wont even come clse to the power of teh SC and will require MUCH more work to make it all work.

Like ya said, play with the exhaust a little (y-pipe/cat) or go the tried and true way with the supercharger.

[projektvertx]

Originally Posted by bigbird

what supporting mods? youll need a 190lph pump, relocate your knock sensors (very cheap and easy) and the charger. you dont have to put on an exhaust or intake or anything. thoes just help make more power. the TRD charger was designed to run on a STOCK gen4 1mz. as far as reliability...i had my SC on my car for nearly 50K....and it was 150K when it was installed. my engine only suffered from that toyota favorite VC leak and nothign else. my money went to repairing everything BUT the engine and trans.



with out FI or very high compression, a tune, P&P, Cams...ect wont do much. it wont even come clse to the power of teh SC and will require MUCH more work to make it all work.

Like ya said, play with the exhaust a little (y-pipe/cat) or go the tried and true way with the supercharger.

I guess that's that them Thanks for the input/advice man, it's appreciate it! I think I'll follow your suggestions I always imagined the supercharger would wreak havoc on a high mileage engine...

[pmesfun]

Would a high mileage transmission survive with a S/C?