water in my spark plug well ! help

[tonic]

Please kindly help asap with advices for my situation.
I have a Camry 1996 - just reached 160,000miles.
The problem started 2 weeks ago. Check engine came ON. Car was perfectly running- I let the car running like this for a few days- stopped at Autozone and checked the code.
Was something about Evacuation emission system.
Checked my Oil Level- checked coolant level! everything perfect.
Bought a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner. (and just keep that bottle in my car- never use those cleaners- my car always run perfect)
For one reason I open/closed my gas cap ... and after a few days Check engine came OFF by herself.
Drove the care another few days ... and I said lets use the Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner if I already bought it. Well here my problem started- but it may be a simple coincidence!
When my tank was almost gone- my car started acting weird ... a little bit rough ... hmm- I know my car, so I realised something - something is not right ...
I said well it could be the mixture/burning from that Chevron thing.
Next day problems - my care was rough and really weird like working just in 3 cylinders ?! and shaking. Engine light came ON right away. Driving home was really bad ... and pressing the gas the check engine was FLASHING!
Checked the car ... oil looks pritty dark now- how I said I know my car! oil looks different... and the water/coolant level is bed- the whole thing was missing from that container.
Added some water ... also added a little water into radiator too (probably radiator was half empty?! just guessing- not totally empty anyhow)
Stopped to Autozone to check the codes. Cylinder 2 misfire.
Ok I said it could be the dirt that Chevron dissolved and blocked one of my injector?! no2
So I said - well bed but not to bed ... but than this morning I am tacking out the cable from the spark plug and inside is water ... a lot of water?!coolant I can smell it's not oil. Removing the Oil cap I can see also signs that water is inside the OIL.
Please kindly help. Advices - what should I try first?! What could be damaged? Where I should go to check/or what basic test I can do by myself. I really appreciate all your help.
Could be the engine block cracked somehow? or bended / I guess is not worth fixing anything that way- just trash the car?!
i a pissed off! I am disaponted with this engine now- always run maintenance /change oil etc blah blah blah.

[JohnGD]

Sounds like the head gasket blew. It's probably a coincidence, but the 96 used a composite gasket that's not as reliable as later multi-layer steel head gaskets.

Verify that it's a blown head gasket first. If that's the case the cheapest is to swap in a used engine.

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by tonic

always run maintenance /change oil etc blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by JohnGD

Verify that it's a blown head gasket first. If that's the case the cheapest is to swap in a used engine.

Maybe not. I submit if he's looked after the engine and it's only a HG then I'd prefer to fix the HG and keep an engine with a known maintenance record. It's a Camry with only 160,000 miles. As well if the timing belt is coming due he can change that at the same time.

Tonic, is this a 4 cyl'd or 6? Do you have mechanical skills/tools?

[tonic]

well ... I am so disapointed with my Camry now... I changed the oil in time, I checked all the fluids in time ... car was never overheated... I don't understand. I guess it's my luck.
The cooling ventialtion was always starting ... so I guess if it's overheated it will show me on bord.
The car is 4cyl ... I have tools ... and I have mechanicals skills- I replaced one time the IAC Valve, and tuneup- but never something major ... I am afraid to do it- especially the timing belt!!!!!!!! But that's a good ideea regarding the timing belt, thank you for your advice... should I go somewhere to run a compression test? or how is that called? is that going to help in finding out what exactly is wrong? Or it's a high change the HG is bad?
A HG replacement it's like 1,200-1,500 ?! and is that going to work? I mean people replacing that gasket generally it will work for another few years? Thank you ... it seems it's delicate problem since just a few people answered. I have a friendin Florida - he run in exactly same issue with a 95 Camry 6cyl. and he simply choosed to trash the car. I just put new tires on this car- the engine was working fine- so I was hoping to drive it for another 2 years easy. In the end I am not sure how relaible is a Toyota, at this point I feel like I should go for a german car- if that's the case I've lost my faith in a Camry engine. I came here in US and everybody was crazy about Camry's - buy a Camry buy a Camry!!!! I was looking for a passat diesel- everybody was like- don't buy Passat don't by VW ... yeah now I know why the mechanics overcharge and they don't know sh*t about german cars, that's the problem.

[tonic]

I called Sears Auto- and Pep Boys and no one can run a compression test- they said they don't have the machine to do that?! OMG
Where I can run that compression test on the engine?!

[carsrus]

Your think that german cars are reliable..... No offense but 160,000 miles is a lot, the car doesn't owe you anything. A german car wont make it to 100k without getting ass raped by the dealer 7 or 8 times. Yeah I've been there, done that. Unless your a car-oholic and do 100% of your own work a german car will leave on the side of the road with an empty wallet.

Pep Boys and sears auto arent the place for a head gasket job. Find a reputable independent mechanic.

[tonic]

man I had a vw passat tdi back in my country
never had this problem- the diesel engine is runnig 300k miles no problems - I am laughting at your comment now
the mechanics are notorius here when is about a german car, I can say they are not educated- and and the price/charges are based on that
I am not saying a Camry is bad- I am saying I am dissapointed it failed in this way ... that's it

[JohnGD]

Wait until the engine is cold and pull the spark plugs. See if you have coolant on the plugs. If you see coolant on there there is no need for a compression test. Then it may be a head gasket or it may be a cracked block. If the block is cracked then it's another engine. Driving with a hydrolocked cylinder can lead to bent piston rods and other internal damage.

As mentioned chain stores aren't good for major work like this. Try finding a good AERA member shop in your area IMO they're better than the typical corner garage. Some members are still duds however. See if one nearby has racing experience.

http://www.aera.org/member-services/member-locator/

Most mechanics can't even maintain inexpensive mainstream Detroit cars. Then again Europe's got a lot of experience running clean diesels. I work on European cars and I would have to agree these engines don't have the level of technical sophistication of European engines.

[tonic]

the problem is I don't know the structure inside ...
I believe the top of the spark plug is nowhere near the headgasket surface... so I am guessing its leaking from somewhere else. Perhaps a crack in the head ?!

[JohnGD]

If you pull the plugs and see coolant on the plugs then it's in your cylinders. It's a cheap check. Since cylinder #2 is misfiring, see if it's got coolant on it.

Or you can check for exhaust gas in the coolant. Radiator shops should be able to do that for a fee. But given your descriptions I don't think this is even necessary.

Originally Posted by tonic

the problem is I don't know the structure inside ...
I believe the top of the spark plug is nowhere near the headgasket surface... so I am guessing its leaking from somewhere else. Perhaps a crack in the head ?!

[tonic]

YES water/coolant is in the sparkplug tube/well ... and it's alot
but what I've just done is:
since I was afraid some coolant is inside the oil ... I just went out and bought some cheap oil just to change the oil temporary for now - and i bought a sparkplag too ... for the cylinder #2 misfire ...
dried spark wire ... and removed the water from the spark plug tube ... and replaced the spark plug witht he new one ...
changed the oil/put a new filter ... and turned the car ON for 2 minutes ... everithing worked fine ...
I decided to drive the car a few minutes ... first 2 minutes was fine ... and than I realise the problem is comming back - I heard the noise ... so I stopped the car - removed the no# spark plug wire ... no water yet - but smoke/burned water was comming out ... Drive again the car for another 2 minutes / I had the felling it's started to fail again like it was before/just in 3 cylinders ... and stopped the car on my driveway.
So it seems the new replace no #2 sparkplug it's failing again ... since as I can see condensation/vapors from the coolant it's forming again...
So I guess in a short time coolant will start acumulating there more and more and more ...
Now- my question is ... till I take it to the shop/take a decision to fix/rebuild or not the engine ... or find another car to buy/high chance it will not be a camry ... it's a high risk even if I drive slow (45-55mph) to kill the other 3 pistons/cilinders/valves or wathere it's inside?
thanks ..

[JohnGD]

As far as driving I don't know the answer to that, but I guess as little as possible. Some 3.8L Detroit iron blocks can limp for miles. For short distances until you find a solution. V8 or V6 can deal with it better than I4. But I don't really know.

If the coolant isn't in the cylinder to cause hydrolock but only in the tube well to cause an electrical short (and therefore rough running), then maybe seal the boot to the plug with a lot of dielectric grease? And find out where the coolant may be coming from, certainly not from the top of the tube well. And if not from within the cylinder (or is it?) maybe a cracked cylinder head at the base of the tube well? Just guessing.

If the problem is a cracked cylinder head then maybe just swapping it out would solve the problem? There should be plenty around for this engine.

[tonic]

I have another question:
I found someone/a friend that will open the whole engine and replace the gasket for 500$
But I am afraid now if it's a crack ?! It's common a crak or it's more common to have a bad gasket? I know it's difficult to say, but generaly speaking.
Also anyone here knows the instruction/ or a forum link where I can see in pictures the procedure?
What else I can replace/or what other work I can do since we repalce the gasket?
What part I would need to order?
What would be the best place to order those parts? Thank you.

[JohnGD]

Well I think you need to find out more about where the coolant is leaking from. If your cylinders are still dry (have you pulled the plugs or just the wires?) and you have water in the spark plug tube, then the problem may be with the cylinder head in that area. The rough running maybe an electrical problem (coolant on plug wires) instead of coolant lugging in cylinders for example.

Head gasket failure is more common, especially these composite type gaskets. MLS does require finer surface finish however but would be a better gasket for bi-metal engines (iron blocks and alum heads).

This thread may help:
Is there a DIY head-gasket replacement thread (4cyl)?

[SilverSoarer]

Most head gasket repairs do not last unless done absolutely right (you may have to machine the block).

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) had a good article on vehicle reliability: a 7 year old Lexus ES300 (same V6 engine as a camry) is comparable to a *brand new* 5-Series BMW in terms of defects.

It's true diesels like the 1970s Mercedes 240 can reach 600k miles, but the vast majority of European automotive products are vastly overrated, especially the late model cars. With "technical sophistication" comes increased failure rates.