I'm so friggin tired of lazy a*s shops! Nightmare, ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[96ToyoCam164K]

I think for now on I'm going to try to stick with independent shops. I could not wait to get home to vent about this!

OK, so if you've been following me I had installed a compressor and dryer. All was well, sort of. I took it to 2 shops to have it vacuumed and recharged. Both 'Asian' specialists places. But I'm just going to talk about the one from today.

I took it in to a shop yesterday and there was a leak coming from compressor. Apparently my inline filter wasn't fitting right. My fault. I told them to let me take it back home and fix it. Which I did.

I came back today and they tried to pull a vacuum but couldn't. The guy is telling me, "There's a leak at the lines connecting to the dryer now. we've spent a lot of time on this and there's leaks keep showing up, we have other cars to work on. So far we have nothing to charge you for but if leaks keep showing up we're going to have to refer you to someone else. We can't keep wasting time on this"

I told him, "well can you have them doublecheck the connections?" They tighten some bolts still leaking. He calls me back. I tell him, can they remove the 2 liquid tubes (2 little 48 in. lb bolts) and see if the O-rings are seated properly? There's no cracks in the lines so that HAS to be the only reason. He's like, "well we're going to have to charge you $57 to remove the dryer lines (mind you the job itself it $150)." I'm like, IT'S SIMPLE! 2 little bolts. He's like, "well if it was so simple it wouldn't be leaking". I was like, forget it! I'll just take the car back. It was nice that they let me go without charging me $30 like the other shop who didn't do shit to it...but I wanted to leave with my A/C working, not a free inspection.

So, I asked my barber for a recommendation on a mechanic because I was already annoyed at the other 2 I went to before. I go to this guy who has full A/C equipment in his backyard. Although it took 4 hours from vacuum to recharge including another big leak at the Schrader valve which was a simple unscrew and replace. He also helped put on the o-rings on the dryer lines which was a bitch I couldn't do it myself.

All in all, he charged me $30 less than the other place and took the time to figure out where the leak was coming from with an electronic sniffer. He didn't just say, "oh schrader valve is leaking...can't help you.

It's like, I don't understand some of these shops. They have no interest in helping DIY people. They find a leak, know where it is and won't even unhook a simple damn line to find out why. I mean I know they can't just dig around for free but they seemed to have no interest in figuring it out. They rather me leave without paying anything than to unhook the line, see that the o-ring had fell off and then go on about the job. Meanwhile I'm in the shop looking stupid in front of customer because they make it seem like my A/C system is a piece of shit and it's not. Because now it's blowing ice cold

I think after today I'm going to stick with independent privately owned for just about everything I do in life. My apartment? Private owner. Body work? Got it done at a backyard shop. It's like most of these places seem to want to do bare minimum, don't give a shit about the customer even though they make it seem like they do but are really just about the money. It's like if you don't fit the description of the assemble line customer who comes in and doesn't know shit about cars...where they just throw quotes out and expect you to pay up; then they really don't give 2 fucks worth to help you out. If something isn't right...they're just going to send it back to you or charge you an arm and a leg to do the simplest little job...like undoing 2 screws to replace an o-ring that a private owner would charge like $10 for.

When I left I told him, "well sorry we didn't work out!" As in...I'm never coming back here again. It's a shame that they were all nice and welcoming in the beginning but the moment my A/C was leaking all of a sudden I was the bad customer LOL. It's like they didn't even want me there anymore.

[carsrus]

You make a point but thats the thing iwth owning a old car. Unless your 100% diy its not gonna be worth it. I give up on A/C the second a leak becomes to big. Its not worth the hassle.

Remember a shop cant charge 10$ to do something. That wouldn't work. Ive worked at a shop and let me tell you, people that do DIY stuff like that and/or bring there own parts cause a lot more problems then they could have had if everything was left up to the shop. Its a business. If you were running it you would not want to deal with bs while real money is to be made.

In general its either diy or stealership. Maintaining an old car non diy will eventually turn into a joke.

[RichieRichJP]

That's why you should do all the work yourself.
I usually heard bad things about "independent" people running shops out of their backyards. Seldom will you find a reliable person that is truly good at what they do in that respect.
Back to DIY'ing, I just don't trust people in my area.
Second, when you have a ~$20,000 turbo project, the only way to save money IS to do the work yourself. Investing in tools and having access to a manual will save you a lot in the long run.
I should also add with that much money spent, you could have just bought a new line. It's bullshit they charged you when they didn't even fix it.

[96ToyoCam164K]

Originally Posted by carsrus

Ive worked at a shop and let me tell you, people that do DIY stuff like that and/or bring there own parts cause a lot more problems then they could have had if everything was left up to the shop. Its a business. If you were running it you would not want to deal with bs while real money is to be made.

In general its either diy or stealership. Maintaining an old car non diy will eventually turn into a joke.

LOL, well I learned the bring your own parts issue but I thought it'd be easier to just do the whole thing myself and then have them recharge. Both parts Denso Japan. Brand new from box and I installed just like the manual.

I have tried to DIY everything I can because this car has minor but lots of issues. Had to put a new radio, power window motor, maintenance stuff. Most mechanics get annoyed when you come back more than once a month for some reason

My thing is that I've had this car since 2007. I've paid mechanic shops countless numbers of time to fix my a/c only to have none time and time again. I paid 2 shops to do the evap. twice. Changed like 4 compressors. Recharged 50 million times. I got tired of throwing away my hard earned money on my a/c every summer so I just did it myself (half of it). I still ended up saving quite a bit.

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by 96ToyoCam164K

It's like, I don't understand some of these shops. They have no interest in helping DIY people.

Helping as in FREE work? I'm no fan of repair shops but you expect to not be able to do your own leak detection/0-ring & filter installation then expect the shop to do that troubleshooting work for no charge? They have expenses and overhead to pay and quite frankly, trying to deal with inexperienced DIYers, which is not the high end of the profit scale, is not what they're in business for. Did you know that you can use compressed air in the system to do leak detection? That means you don't have to discharge/recharge/vacuum repeatedly. You'll have to spend extra time pulling a vacuum to get the moisture out, but for difficult leak detection it can save a lot of time and expense (don't use the new dryer until you're ready to charge the system).

[AlmightyCamry777]

Over the years I have had the following results by taking my cars and trucks (10 in all) in to shops:

-Engine valves adjusted so tight they would have burned if i hadn't checked their work and fixed it myself.
-Alternator installed with too small pulley, causing belt not to be able to be tightened, car to run out of voltage on the freeway requiring new belt, new battery, tow, and new alternator.
-Smog shop told me i needed to get a new intake manifold gasket to smog, then paying some thief $200 to do it, and car still not smogging.
-Distributor hold down bolt holes stripped out by the same worthless, criminal smog shop.
-New clutch installed by a shop...while replacing the engine 3 months later, i noticed the idiots had made the bolts holding on the pressure plate so loose they were almost falling out.
-Quicky lube place, car returned two quarts low, wrong filter installed, and drain plug so tight it needed to be drilled out.

the reason i bought a Toyota is to AVOID repair shops - i hate them! When i HAVE to take it in to a shop, i always inspect what they did and i always find something wrong. Fasteners not tight or stripped, vacuum hoses and electrical connections replaced improperly or dangling loose.
I avoid shops unless i am stuck and can't avoid them!

[Silent Runner]

I had a timing belt replaced on my old 626 Turbo Mazda, by a local Canadian Tire shop. They turned it back over to me with the timing cover buzzing like a chain saw. (tensioner failed) In follow -up repairs they did discount the repair bill, but how could any decent mechnic think that the engine sounded OK? Recently I replaced the rear valve cover gaskets on my Gen3, 3vz Camry, half of the plenum bolts were finger tight. This car had the same job only 5years and 30K miles ago at a Toyota dealership. Just before that, I had the timing belt replaced at another Toyota Dealership and told them to replace everthing they could while "in there", they said "no its not necessary". 200km, later, it was back in and had to have the water pump, idlers, tensioner, cam seals and oil pump replaced. In this case, a heart-to-heart discussion with the shop manager, suggested that they were reluctant to do all this stuff in the first place, because they don't want to be percieved as trying to "rip-off" the owners of older Toyotas for un-neccesary repairs. I got it redone for the cost of the new parts, because I had told them to do it the first time. Any shop, even a Dealership can mess-up or miss things on repairs, and sometimes they can be reluctant to do some work for reasons that are not always obvious.

[96ToyoCam164K]

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

Helping as in FREE work? I'm no fan of repair shops but you expect to not be able to do your own leak detection/0-ring & filter installation then expect the shop to do that troubleshooting work for no charge? They have expenses and overhead to pay and quite frankly, trying to deal with inexperienced DIYers, which is not the high end of the profit scale, is not what they're in business for.

No that's not what I'm suggesting.

OK. The shop was to charge me $140+tax for vacuum and recharge. Now, I sat thru the entire process several times now. I've had the lines vacuumed like 4 or 5 times in the past 12 months. They hook it up, and then walk away for 30 minutes or an hour and then come back and OH, it's leaking!

What I'm saying is 3 cans of R134 does not cost $140. The rest is labor. They are charging a labor to do what?

Air conditioning service

! Which is finding leaks. That's what they are supposed to do.

Now, common sense would be to investigate thoroughly the leak and then leave it to the customer to fix. But since they know that I already changed out 2 components...dryer and compressor, that there shouldn't be an major cause for it to be leaking.

Now, how much more work would it have been for them to change out a schrader valve and add an o-ring to the dryer? Had they not been so lazy they could have gotten $140 plus whatever it was to install those parts. And $57 to do that when I'm already paying them labor to recharge the A/C is RIDICULOUS.

They were so busy trying to get rid of me that they missed out on the money.

Originally Posted by AlmightyCamry777

vacuum hoses and electrical connections replaced improperly or dangling loose.
I avoid shops unless i am stuck and can't avoid them!

yeah the guy I took it to yesterday who actually got my A/C working found 2 missing vacuum hoses. One of them going from the motor to something else.

[zythr]

[quote=AlmightyCamry777;3602281]Over the years I have had the following results by taking my cars and trucks (10 in all) in to shops:

-Engine valves adjusted so tight they would have burned if i hadn't checked their work and fixed it myself.

I wonder if this is not why Toyota went to shims to keep valves adjusted

Originally Posted by Silent Runner

I had a timing belt replaced on my old 626 Turbo Mazda, by a local Canadian Tire shop. They turned it back over to me with the timing cover buzzing like a chain saw. (tensioner failed) In follow -up repairs they did discount the repair bill, but how could any decent mechnic think that the engine sounded OK? Recently I replaced the rear valve cover gaskets on my Gen3, 3vz Camry, half of the plenum bolts were finger tight. This car had the same job only 5years and 30K miles ago at a Toyota dealership. Just before that, I had the timing belt replaced at another Toyota Dealership and told them to replace everthing they could while "in there", they said "no its not necessary". 200km, later, it was back in and had to have the water pump, idlers, tensioner, cam seals and oil pump replaced. In this case, a heart-to-heart discussion with the shop manager, suggested that they were reluctant to do all this stuff in the first place, because they don't want to be percieved as trying to "rip-off" the owners of older Toyotas for un-neccesary repairs. I got it redone for the cost of the new parts, because I had told them to do it the first time. Any shop, even a Dealership can mess-up or miss things on repairs, and sometimes they can be reluctant to do some work for reasons that are not always obvious.

They also could have been trying to service as many cars as they could during the time they're open, which would mean more money

[fenixus]

last time I took my wife's 5s-fe for vacuum/recharge, the mechanic was so busy that I brought the car into the shop near the machine and while guy was checking out the other job/car, he was just yelling over to me which button I needed to press on machine to get the process started.
20 minutes later shouted what to press to start recharge process

that "service" cost me like $150 ... supplies ... and labor
hehe... I guess it was the price to "rent" the machine and use it in their shop then LOL

... so hehe, I agree, there is almost zero labor involved with the process (if there is no real leaks) ... plus the machine can be operated even by a child who knows what buttons to press (once the hose is hooked up that is).

I hate shops refusing to do simple tasks and trying to get rid of customer (your o-rings replacement)... they could have made money, you would pay as these were the last things left out (plus valve replacement coming up later after troubleshooting at the other place)... well, they lost their chance to earn money. don't go back to them.

I usually use only one local indy shop, they are not perfect, they sometimes overcharge me and I know it. but some other times I negotiate the deal with owner and he gives good labor price in return. they never refuse working with my parts. sometimes they do clumsy work (loose nuts, broken clips and such), but hey it's not a big deal when job is done and all works (with parts of my preference).

Last time they even helped me find parts on last minute on Friday evening, when I needed new front wheel hubs (for wheel bearings replacement, I brought in steering knuckles that I removed off car in parking lot at home, but had no clue the hubs were destroyed too). it worked out, they did the job for me, finished it at like 8pm on Friday. agreed to pay whatever they wanted as a tip didn't dare to "negotiate the price"

still, I go to them only if I can't do something myself ... which is very rarely recently hehe.

Bottom line is, stick to the guy who agrees working with you and goes forward in helping you when you need it most. screw the shops causing problems and sending you back to come some other day or simply refusing to do small things.

Originally Posted by 96ToyoCam164K

No that's not what I'm suggesting.

OK. The shop was to charge me $140+tax for vacuum and recharge. Now, I sat thru the entire process several times now. I've had the lines vacuumed like 4 or 5 times in the past 12 months. They hook it up, and then walk away for 30 minutes or an hour and then come back and OH, it's leaking!

What I'm saying is 3 cans of R134 does not cost $140. The rest is labor. They are charging a labor to do what? ! Which is finding leaks. That's what they are supposed to do.

Now, common sense would be to investigate thoroughly the leak and then leave it to the customer to fix. But since they know that I already changed out 2 components...dryer and compressor, that there shouldn't be an major cause for it to be leaking.

Now, how much more work would it have been for them to change out a schrader valve and add an o-ring to the dryer? Had they not been so lazy they could have gotten $140 plus whatever it was to install those parts. And $57 to do that when I'm already paying them labor to recharge the A/C is RIDICULOUS.

They were so busy trying to get rid of me that they missed out on the money.



yeah the guy I took it to yesterday who actually got my A/C working found 2 missing vacuum hoses. One of them going from the motor to something else.

[hill8570]

Just goes to show ya that when you find a good shop, hang onto them for dear life. I mostly DIY, but if I'm in a hurry or looking at something I don't understand, I've got a good shop to go to. Took me 10 years to find them, 'tho.

I think the problem you're running into is that most shops charge "by the job / book" -- let's them quote a fixed rate up front. If everything goes right, they beat the clock and make good money. Shit happens and they might as well have slept in. They generally charge a small diagnosis fee, even though anyone who's worked on cars for long knows that diagnosis is often the hardest part of the job.

On an opened-ended job like this, the shop could've quoted you "$xxx per hour -- no guarantees, and the meter's running until we're done." But you would've walked.

[Mister_Perkins]

privately owned shops are almost always better than big Nationwide shops... This is only true if the mechanics know whats going on. The reason that they are better is because they are trying to keep their customer base because they need to make money to pay the bills every month. The large shops dont need to really make money... its ideal, but if they dont have much business one month its ok, because the busy shops elsewhere make up for the loss on that quarter.

The only thing that you have to look out for at independant shops is the fact that some of the knowledgable mechanics know that you may not know much about cars, and they get greedy and want to make a higher profit so they replace parts that dont need replaced.. This is true with larger shops as well though.

Its always a gamble when choosing an independant shop, but that's why its a good idea to be very cautious when going to shops. Get a good idea of what problems you have on your car, and be specific in what you want replaced. When getting billed, always ask to see the labor book, listing how much time it should take to replace a part, and if more ask Why. Always ask a lot of questions, no matter how stupid they seem. You may annoy the mechanic, but in the end you will have more knowledge.

Glad ya got your AC Fixed, sux that you had to go through so much BS!

[ghettosled]

sucks you had to go through this, but i cant say im surprised. you partially fixed something the expect the shop to fix the other minor bits for free. i dont think that would be fair for them. their time to pull your car in, hook it up, take up space while hooked up to a piece of equipment, plus overhead.

[sam333]

You are what is known in the mechanic trade as a PIA. You think these shops owe you something, they dont.