3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
Right now I have a 2002 Celica GTS, its small passenger space, blind spots, and high insurance have really gotten to me over time. I was hoping I would be able to sell it and change up to the 3rd gen Camry wagon. My mom had one when I was growing up, I learned to drive in it actually. The folding back seats were really handy to squeeze in 7 people. So I have been looking around trying to gather more and more information about these cars, like things to look out for and such.
A couple things I haven't found with searching are:
1. Was ABS available and how do you know if it had it? (Had an incident yesterday where ABS would have saved me quite a bit of money) Could it be added on?
2. What type of mpg difference is there with the V6? For anyone that has the v6 do you think its worth it?
3. They said they changed the V6 to aluminum in '94, is there any real weight improvement or mpg from this? Or just the 3hp?
4. This one worried me and I saw it listed on multiple sites "Coolant leak (1992-96): Head-gasket failure on 3.0-liter engines allows coolant to enter the cylinders."
How would I know if this might be an issue? Would it not even run if this happened or would there be some sort of smell or fumes from exhaust?
5. What were the exact differences with the LE DX models, just the engines?
6. Anything random I should watch for? Certain ones burn more oil? Certain mileage marks to be wary of? etc...
1. Was ABS available and how do you know if it had it? (Had an incident yesterday where ABS would have saved me quite a bit of money) Could it be added on?
It was an option on the earlier years. I *think* it became standard later; not sure about that. Yes, it could be added, at great expense and time. Not really practical IMHO.
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2. What type of mpg difference is there with the V6? For anyone that has the v6 do you think its worth it?
It varies a lot, but generally the V6 costs 4-5 MPG. At my altitude, most engines lose 20% of their HP, so for me, it's definitely worth it.
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3. They said they changed the V6 to aluminum in '94, is there any real weight improvement or mpg from this? Or just the 3hp?
The aluminum block V6 (1MZ-FE) is lighter (~100 lbs???). Does it make enough of a difference to be worth seeking out? Not in my opinion.
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4. This one worried me and I saw it listed on multiple sites "Coolant leak (1992-96): Head-gasket failure on 3.0-liter engines allows coolant to enter the cylinders."
How would I know if this might be an issue? Would it not even run if this happened or would there be some sort of smell or fumes from exhaust?
I think they're referring to the V6 in the '92-'93 (3VZ-FE). It has a known propensity to blow head gaskets. The later V6, not so much of an issue. That might be a reason to prefer the aluminum blocked 1MZ from '94-on. How to tell is sometimes difficult. If the coolant is leaking into the combustion chamber, the exhaust will be white smoky and smell kinda sweet. If it's exhaust leaking into the cooling system, it'll sometimes overheat and/or puke coolant.
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5. What were the exact differences with the LE DX models, just the engines?
Both came standard with the 4 cyl, V6 was an option. The LE came standard with power locks, windows, antenna, probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. The DX could be up-optioned.
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6. Anything random I should watch for? Certain ones burn more oil? Certain mileage marks to be wary of? etc...
Oil burning?...no, not really. Valve cover gasket leaks. Suspension probs with strut mounts. Minor stuff really. They're pretty solid cars, reliability-wise. All of them have non-interference engines, so if the timing belt breaks while running there's no chance of major engine damage. Given decent maintenance, they're good for 200k miles or better.
HTH
__________________
1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, 330k miles, dark emerald pearl, owned since new.
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, moonroof, white, acquired w/ 139k miles, now at 261k.
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung all around, Ohlins in the rear, Race Tech cartridge emulators in the forks, 45k miles.
The Following User Says Thank You to BMR For This Useful Post:
Right now I have a 2002 Celica GTS, its small passenger space, blind spots, and high insurance have really gotten to me over time. I was hoping I would be able to sell it and change up to the 3rd gen Camry wagon. My mom had one when I was growing up, I learned to drive in it actually. The folding back seats were really handy to squeeze in 7 people. So I have been looking around trying to gather more and more information about these cars, like things to look out for and such.
A couple things I haven't found with searching are:
1. Was ABS available and how do you know if it had it? (Had an incident yesterday where ABS would have saved me quite a bit of money) Could it be added on?
2. What type of mpg difference is there with the V6? For anyone that has the v6 do you think its worth it?
3. They said they changed the V6 to aluminum in '94, is there any real weight improvement or mpg from this? Or just the 3hp?
4. This one worried me and I saw it listed on multiple sites "Coolant leak (1992-96): Head-gasket failure on 3.0-liter engines allows coolant to enter the cylinders."
How would I know if this might be an issue? Would it not even run if this happened or would there be some sort of smell or fumes from exhaust?
5. What were the exact differences with the LE DX models, just the engines?
6. Anything random I should watch for? Certain ones burn more oil? Certain mileage marks to be wary of? etc...
V6 = worth the extra fuel. Try get one with a 5-speed if you can. I get a consistent 20 mpg city driving with a lead foot
LE = midline level (unless you're in canada, LE covered US's LE, XLE and SE trims under one name). XLE has the best features
ABS is SUPER HANDY!! Saved my ass a few times. But good tires are important too!
And as for the difference between v6's, the 1MZ has a bit more high-end power, but the powerband on the 3VZ is far more usable (peak torque at ~2200 rpm to 4400 or so) and fun, IMO... But unless you're flogging it on a track, both should work equally well
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR
It was an option on the earlier years. I *think* it became standard later; not sure about that. Yes, it could be added, at great expense and time. Not really practical IMHO.
It varies a lot, but generally the V6 costs 4-5 MPG. At my altitude, most engines lose 20% of their HP, so for me, it's definitely worth it.
The aluminum block V6 (1MZ-FE) is lighter (~100 lbs???). Does it make enough of a difference to be worth seeking out? Not in my opinion.
I think they're referring to the V6 in the '92-'93 (3VZ-FE). It has a known propensity to blow head gaskets. The later V6, not so much of an issue. That might be a reason to prefer the aluminum blocked 1MZ from '94-on. How to tell is sometimes difficult. If the coolant is leaking into the combustion chamber, the exhaust will be white smoky and smell kinda sweet. If it's exhaust leaking into the cooling system, it'll sometimes overheat and/or puke coolant.
3VZ-E was the one with HG problems. The 3VZ-FE is among the most bulletproof motors toyota ever made
__________________
1993 Toyota Camry 3VZ 5-Speed
(Beige Beluga)
1989 Toyota MR2 3S-GTE 5-Speed (Din)
Need performance parts?
Shoot me a PM, I'll see what I can do
The Following User Says Thank You to Gothmog3VZ For This Useful Post:
ABS is SUPER HANDY!! Saved my ass a few times. But good tires are important too!
Is it just a component on the rotor wheel area? Or would it be that and ECU controlled or something? Has anyone done a conversion? I figure if I could do pick a part and try to figure out cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothmog3VZ
And as for the difference between v6's, the 1MZ has a bit more high-end power, but the powerband on the 3VZ is far more usable (peak torque at ~2200 rpm to 4400 or so) and fun, IMO... But unless you're flogging it on a track, both should work equally well
That is really interesting that the peak torque is for that long, I see that listed on Wikipedia now. I must have just read over that detail at first. I'd probably prefer the 3VZ-FE with the peak torque for a long time on the low end. I don't really like how much I need to gas the Celica to get any real power out of it. Do the engines have the same redline and fuel cut off? There any dynos of either engine stock to get a better idea of how the power is on them?
Is it just a component on the rotor wheel area? Or would it be that and ECU controlled or something? Has anyone done a conversion? I figure if I could do pick a part and try to figure out cost.
You need ABS calipers among other things, I believe. Far simpler to just find a car with ABS, imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xCaldazar
That is really interesting that the peak torque is for that long, I see that listed on Wikipedia now. I must have just read over that detail at first. I'd probably prefer the 3VZ-FE with the peak torque for a long time on the low end. I don't really like how much I need to gas the Celica to get any real power out of it. Do the engines have the same redline and fuel cut off? There any dynos of either engine stock to get a better idea of how the power is on them?
here you go!
That's whp and wtq (Courtesy of EEngineer on his old Camry, may she RIP
a quick google search should bring up a 1mz dyno graph (probably on mr2oc)
__________________
1993 Toyota Camry 3VZ 5-Speed
(Beige Beluga)
1989 Toyota MR2 3S-GTE 5-Speed (Din)
Need performance parts?
Shoot me a PM, I'll see what I can do
The Following User Says Thank You to Gothmog3VZ For This Useful Post:
That is really interesting that the peak torque is for that long, I see that listed on Wikipedia now. I must have just read over that detail at first. I'd probably prefer the 3VZ-FE with the peak torque for a long time on the low end. I don't really like how much I need to gas the Celica to get any real power out of it. Do the engines have the same redline and fuel cut off? There any dynos of either engine stock to get a better idea of how the power is on them?
3VZ-FE redlines at 6500rpms and cut is 6850 (disputed)
Early 1MZ redlines at 6200 and cut at 6750
later 1mz redlined and cut at 6200.
And P.S i dont see how the 2ZZ celica is a hard car to drive.
__________________
93 Lexus ES300 5spd I/E URSB
01 Toyota Avalon TFSB, Weapon-R
The Following User Says Thank You to Bdub215 For This Useful Post:
And P.S i dont see how the 2ZZ celica is a hard car to drive.
I don't remember saying it was hard car to drive. Its a fun to drive, just have to give it a lot of gas to get power because it has a weak low end. I am looking at getting a camry wagon + a cheap motorcycle. That way I have something for some real fun riding and something decent to fit people in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothmog3VZ
You need ABS calipers among other things, I believe. Far simpler to just find a car with ABS, imo.
I just haven't seen to many with that listed in this area. Maybe they are just leaving it out on the description? I can see something people forget about. Should there be an abs light lit up or something on the dash or an abs emblem somewhere to know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothmog3VZ
V6 = worth the extra fuel. Try get one with a 5-speed if you can.
Did they come stock with 5-speeds? I figured that was only through conversion that people had 5 speeds.
There is also word that the V-6 may be a little harder to work on than the 4 cylinder in this Gen of Camry.
I read that the engine is put in at an angle because it is a bit large for the engine bay so that some stuff is very hard to reach without taking out a considerable amount of unrelated parts.
Wheel speed sensors at each wheel
Replace the CV axles with ones that have tone rings; they look like gear teeth, for the sensor to read.
Replace the rear wheel bearing cartridges with ones that have tone rings
Add the ABS control module
Add the ABS pump
Re-run all the hard brake lines (hoses at the wheels are same, I think).
There's probably more I'm forgetting or don't know about.
One way to tell if it's present is that when started, the ABS error light on the instrument cluster should light up for a few seconds and then go out, if everything's OK. Another way to tell on '94's-onward is to look under the hood. On the passenger side towards the front should be an ABS pump. Looks like a big ol' block of aluminum with a buncha brake lines hooked into it. On '92-'93s, it's buried under the windshield washer fluid tank. Here's a pic of a 1MZ-FE equipped Camry with ABS. On the far left, see all the brake lines?... just forward of the coolant reservoir (filled with pink coolant).
__________________
1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, 330k miles, dark emerald pearl, owned since new.
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, moonroof, white, acquired w/ 139k miles, now at 261k.
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung all around, Ohlins in the rear, Race Tech cartridge emulators in the forks, 45k miles.
Last edited by BMR; 07-05-2011 at 02:42 PM.
Reason: Thought of more req'd
The Following User Says Thank You to BMR For This Useful Post:
I read that the engine is put in at an angle because it is a bit large for the engine bay so that some stuff is very hard to reach without taking out a considerable amount of unrelated parts.
Yeah, on the V6's the engine's canted forwards. The spark plugs in the rear bank are a bit of a PITA to replace. On the aluminum blocked V6's, some of the years (I forget which) have "waste spark" systems where the rear bank's spark is supplied by coil-over-plug's from the front bank = easier to do. Gotta have the right collection of plug socket, u-joints, & extensions to do it without removing the intake plenum. The 3VZ-FE (iron) is the same, plug change-wise. It has a conventional distributor. Other years of the 1MZ-FE (aluminum) have a coil-over-plug on every cylinder, so you're stuck with having to pull the plenum. For me, that's about a 4 hour job. Sucks.
The rear valve cover seals on both of the V6's are a PITA to replace for the same reason... Gotta pull the intake plenum.
__________________
1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, 330k miles, dark emerald pearl, owned since new.
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, moonroof, white, acquired w/ 139k miles, now at 261k.
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung all around, Ohlins in the rear, Race Tech cartridge emulators in the forks, 45k miles.
I see the ABS pump, not hard to pick out. With the '92-'93 does it still look the same and is it possible to even see it without removing the windshield washer fluid tank?
Ya I'm not too worried about them being a pain to work on. Sounds annoying, but totally within my capabilities. I mean how often do they need to be replaced anyways, right? It isn't like an oil change that needs to be serviced regularly.
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2002 Toyota Celica GTS
Beige Beluga
Linear Mode
