3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
My 98 Camry V6 has a puff of smoke on startup. If the car is warm and I shut it off and restart it after less than an hour, there is no smoke on startup. I switched to 10W-30 and that seemed to lessen the smoke. This problem has been going on for a few months now.
This weekend, I changed the valve stem seals and put 5W-30 full synthetic oil in. I expected there to be no smoke and the problem to be fixed. After a couple days of driving, the car smokes the same as it did before I replaced the seals.
Does this mean I did not replace the seals correctly or is there another possible cause of the smoke?
After replacing the seals should I be able to use 5W-30 again or should I stay with a 10W-30 "high mileage" type of oil?
Even on high milage engines that usually fixes the problem, but usually by the time the seals are going your burning some pass the rings too. Have someone follow you while you decelerate with a closed throttle ( high vacuum) and see if it is blowing smoke. Is there some other reason you dont think you did a
good job on the seals( wrong parts, weren't sure how to install)?
I believe they were installed properly. I just removed the old ones and used a small socket and a light tap with a small rubber mallet to assist in pushing on the new ones.
Only thing I could think of is that on the valve springs, etc. there seemed to be a lot of gunk/buildup. Since the seating surface for the seals is recessed into the head, maybe there was gunk on the seating surface that prevented the new seals from sealing correctly. With the heads on the car, I wasn't really sure how to clean the seating surface. I really couldn't even get my fingers down where the new stem seal goes.
Was there anything I should have done differently when installing these?
I've followed the car around and it doesn't smoke anytime except for off a start after the car has been sitting for more than an hour.
I think you are probably right about the buildup causing it. There are only four places that oil can get into the combustion chamber, past the rings, past the head gasket, through the PCV system or past the valve stem seals. You've ruled out the first two because it doesn't smoke after initial startup. I would guess then that there is some buildup on the one or more of the valve stems causing it not to seal well or as you suggest where the seal fits on the valve guide. It just takes one. The fix, if that is the case, would be to tear the heads down and have everything cleaned and checked. Not sure it's worth it but I guess that depends on how much it bugs you. As long as it is just using a small amount of oil it shouldn't hurt anything.
Might be worth checking for a clogged PCV hose or bad PCV valve but I think that too would manifest as smoke after startup.
Thanks, I guess the smoke will be something I'm gonna live with.
I live in a warm weather climate where the temperature won't drop below 70F.
What is the best oil to use to help minimize leakage past the stem seals?
Is it worth using an additive such as seafoam to try and clean any buildup on the valve stems/guides?
Should I try to use an additive such as Lucas to thicken the oil?
Thanks, I guess the smoke will be something I'm gonna live with.
I live in a warm weather climate where the temperature won't drop below 70F.
What is the best oil to use to help minimize leakage past the stem seals?
Is it worth using an additive such as seafoam to try and clean any buildup on the valve stems/guides?
Should I try to use an additive such as Lucas to thicken the oil?
No Seafoam, No additives.
If your minimum temp is 70 at a minimum run 10w30, if not 10w40. That will calm down your oil burning.
Actually I wouldn't run 10w-40 in a 5sfe. The bearing clearances were designed for 30 weight. Thicker oils make the oil pump work harder, the engine gets hotter and you loose a little power and gas mileage. 10w-30 is probably your best bet. I doubt a thicker oil would help much anyway because it has so much time while the car is sitting to seep through the seals.
The seafoam or other cleaners might help but I always worry about putting them in the oil. You might try just seafoaming through the intake using a vacuum line. If it is a valve stem then it might be exposed to the intake or exhaust.
I am sure you probably did this: installed the intake valve seals on the intake valves and installed the exhaust valve seals on the exhaust valves. But on the off chance that there is a mix up then that could cause problems too.
@joede
Son of a gun. The seals I had out of a kit were all the same color and looked the same. Are the intake and exhaust seals different sizes?
If that's the case, that's prolly whhy the new seals are leaking worse than the old...
Looks like I get to redo the job a second time.
Maybe I can beat 10 hrs this time...
Exhaust and intake valve stem sizes are different and therefore so are the allowable clearances between each type of valve and their respective seals.
Also note that the materials for intake and exhaust seals are often different. Viton is the preferred material for exhaust seals and well worth the little bit more they cost since they last way longer.
For what it is worth, when I changed the valve stem seals on my 99 Camry 4 cyl, I took the head off and performed the valve stem replacement on the bench. Even though this required replacing the head gasket it was tons easier then trying to replace the seals while the head was still under the hood. If you go this route do not mix up the valves. Always keep them in the same place they were before dis-assembly.
Please let us know your results. By the way I do not think 10 hours is not bad for a DIY job!
Are you using oil before the new seals? Are the injectors leaking?
I like to use Fel-Pro premium stem seals. They are premium material (should all be viton) identical for both intake and exhaust. Car manufacturers typically use cheaper seals (such as polyacrylate) on the cooler intakes to save 50 to 80 cents per seal. It saves money for them but sucks for the owners. On these cars the stem diameters are the same, so it's easy to use premium seals for both. Otherwise I guess you can use OEM exhaust seals on intakes as well.
The old stem seals typically hardens to plastic-like hardness by 80-100K miles. Some of them break off and like to stick to the valve guides when pulled. So those should be removed with a pick before you install the new seals, but it really shouldn't affect the install if you miss a couple.
The seals are a tight fit, at least I'd never been able to feel the "click" some claimed to have felt. So I gently tap them with a hammer and a 10mm 3/8"-drive deep socket until I get the solid feel of the valve guide underneath. Don't pound too hard to be able to move the guides. Some 1/4" deep sockets are not deep enough and you end up bottoming the stem tip on the bottom of the socket broach before the seal can seat.
Also, the valve guide should be in full contact with the seal. So there should be no room for sludge and varnish to build up at least in the contact areas. And the stem seals should be installed with a protective sleeve over the valve stems. They are like small drinking straw segments but with one end rounded. The stem seals are oiled and slipped over the sleeves so they don't get scratched. See below:
I believe they were installed properly. I just removed the old ones and used a small socket and a light tap with a small rubber mallet to assist in pushing on the new ones.
Only thing I could think of is that on the valve springs, etc. there seemed to be a lot of gunk/buildup. Since the seating surface for the seals is recessed into the head, maybe there was gunk on the seating surface that prevented the new seals from sealing correctly. With the heads on the car, I wasn't really sure how to clean the seating surface. I really couldn't even get my fingers down where the new stem seal goes.
Was there anything I should have done differently when installing these?
I've followed the car around and it doesn't smoke anytime except for off a start after the car has been sitting for more than an hour.
As far as motor oil goes, if you have buildup/varnish then consider using a high mileage motor oil or reduce the oil change interval. HM oils have more detergent to help clean things out.
I see different opinions, but I'd use 10W-40 (regular or high mileage) if you have oil consumption and not Lucas. I was looking on Mobil website for the same suggestion but can't find it at the moment about going one grade thicker.
Check your local Walmart, they should also have the GF-5/SN rated Motorcraft synthetic blend 10W-30. It's also a good oil if you stay with -30. If you don't mind using an oversized filter their Motorcraft FL910S (V6 sized) or FL400S (similar to Toyota -YZZD3 size) work on the I4 too.
Thanks, I guess the smoke will be something I'm gonna live with.
I live in a warm weather climate where the temperature won't drop below 70F.
What is the best oil to use to help minimize leakage past the stem seals?
Is it worth using an additive such as seafoam to try and clean any buildup on the valve stems/guides?
Should I try to use an additive such as Lucas to thicken the oil?
Out of curiosity I just checked the Toyota dealer and they say that the valve stem seals for both intake and exhaust are the same part number and therefore the same size (part number 90080-31046).
If it were my car, I would make sure that replacement exhaust seals were made from Viton. Further, I would check the specs on the clearance between the valve stem seals and the valve stems.
This year (1998) V6 was known to have sludge problems. Maybe loose valve stem and valve stem seal tolerances caused some of this.
In any event I was wrong about the valve stem sizes for this engine. Apparently both exhaust and intake valve stem seal sizes are identical.
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As long as it is just using a small amount of oil it shouldn't hurt anything.
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