Help! 98 camry CEL on, code p0441 and p0446 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

hqfking · 07-13-2011, 11:15 AM

Hi all,

The CEL is on for a while. I checked the code a few weeks ago and the codes are p0171 and p1133. So , I changed the air/fuel sensor yesterday and cleared the code.

Today, the CEL is on again and now the codes are p0441 and p0446. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks.

Woodyg · 07-13-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hqfking

Hi all,

The CEL is on for a while. I checked the code a few weeks ago and the codes are p0171 and p1133. So , I changed the air/fuel sensor yesterday and cleared the code.

Today, the CEL is on again and now the codes are p0441 and p0446. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks.

......I am new to Camrys so mine is more of a general survey of the situation.......I would add your engine to your signature.... your issue is in your fuel evap system. I would check/replace the fuel cap, cheap and easy........then unless you have a smoker........you should check/replace the hoses and maybe the valve next to the canister.......I think the canisters can be expensive, but I saw this online....http://www.car-stuff.com/carparts/to...-1744196960620

lets see what others think.....

hqfking · 07-13-2011, 02:52 PM

Just found that a small hose which is connected to side of the air filter container is not connected. Maybe I accidentally removed that hose when I change the air intake hose a few days ago. Could that cause the problem?

Thanks.

Woodyg · 07-13-2011, 03:18 PM

Very well could be. Clear the codes and see what happens. The evap house usually runs into the intake/throttle body

hqfking · 07-13-2011, 05:53 PM

If I reconnected the hose, will the CEL be off?

hqfking · 07-14-2011, 12:39 PM

Reconnected the hose, clear the code. The CEL is back on in the morning today. And right now, I replaced the gas cap. Hope everything is going to be OK. Finger crossed.

hqfking · 07-15-2011, 05:34 PM

CEL is still back on. Frustrating. And I found that when you cleared the code, the CEL will be back on at the second time you drove the car on highway.

***JohnGD*** · 07-15-2011, 10:11 PM

Try pulling the hose on the EVAP VSV on the canister side. As you run the (warm) engine you should hear loud suction sounds at the VSV. If you don't then clean or replace the VSV.

See the picture of the VSV (bottom left of the master cylinder), the hose to unplug is on the left.
What hose is this? (pic)

It's a 2-trip evap code, so the first time the code is hidden but you should be able to pull it using an ODBII reader.

hqfking · 07-16-2011, 10:56 AM

I got the code cleared, and passed the inspection. But I will still try to figure out the problem.

hqfking · 07-16-2011, 07:16 PM

I start the car, but didn't hear any suction sounds at the VSV. How to remove and clean that VSV?

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnGD

Try pulling the hose on the EVAP VSV on the canister side. As you run the (warm) engine you should hear loud suction sounds at the VSV. If you don't then clean or replace the VSV.

See the picture of the VSV (bottom left of the master cylinder), the hose to unplug is on the left.
What hose is this? (pic)

It's a 2-trip evap code, so the first time the code is hidden but you should be able to pull it using an ODBII reader.

***JohnGD*** · 07-16-2011, 08:26 PM

Now you can remove the other hose. Use your thumb to cycle on/off the suction. That's the noise you should have heard.

First check the resistance of the VSV and make sure the solenoid is still good. I don't have the number at the moment, but should be around 10-20 ohms? On the VSV there are some metal tabs that you can carefully pry (without breaking) and clean and lightly lube the piston. See if that helps. Otherwise it's a new VSV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hqfking

I start the car, but didn't hear any suction sounds at the VSV. How to remove and clean that VSV?

Thanks.

hqfking · 07-17-2011, 08:48 AM

Just checked the resistance, it is 33.5 ohm. But I get a hard time to remove VSV. I cannot reach the screw that mounted it on the black box underneath it.

A picture would be a great help.

***JohnGD*** · 07-17-2011, 12:37 PM

That resistance may be ok. I just couldn't find any spec on it. There should be a screw on the side of the bracket, facing the engine side. Maybe a long screwdriver from under the air duct?

Before you actually remove it try jumpering voltage from the battery and see if you hear suction. At least this should help rule out the electrical. You can also put the multimeter DCV on the connectors and see what you find there.

A click of the solenoid doesn't mean anything if the VSV doesn't flow a lot of air (the solenoid may be fine but the piston doesn't move). It should flow nearly as much as a disconnected evap hose on the throttle body side. Always exercise caution jumpering directly from the battery. Just be careful with the metal tabs and be ready for a new VSV if you do try to clean it and they (or the plastic cap) break.

hqfking · 07-17-2011, 04:40 PM

Use battery to check the VSV. When I connect it to the battery, I can hear a small sound of clicking. And as shown from the picture, after disconnected the hoses in A and B, when I start the engine, I didn't hear suction sound from A or B. However, the hose connected to the B has a suction sound.

I also removed the hose connected to side of the air filter throttle. Didn't feel any suction sound.

***JohnGD*** · 07-18-2011, 01:09 AM

I should have been more clear. Yes, the suction sound comes from the vacuum being pulled by the engine (the hose from the throttle body needs to be on there).

So with B connected to the throttle body and A connected to the EVAP canister:

1 If you disconnect the vacuum hose at B while the engine is running (the vacuum hose still connected to the throttle body), you should hear loud engine vacuum.

2 And if you cycle close the B vacuum hose with your thumb while the other end is still connected to the throttle body, you are simulating the duty cycles of the VSV. This is the type of suction you should hear at the VSV port A (when the engine is warm and running and the hose at VSV's port A is disconnected).

So my questions are:

Q1: with a running engine, did you hear the loud engine vacuum as you disconnect the hose from port B of the VSV? If not the port on the throttle body needs to be checked. The vacuum hose needs to be checked for obstruction.

Q2: did the VSV duty cycle (clicking regularly) when you run a warm engine? If not use multimeter DCV to check for voltage at the connector with a warm running engine. This may indicate an electrical problem and that the VSV isn't getting the signal to duty cycle.

Q3a: with the hose to port A disconnected and a warm running engine, was the suction sound at port A of the VSV nearly as strong as the suction you heard in Step Q1?

Q3b: if you have a MityVac, what level of in/Hg suction cycles did you see at port A on a warm running engine? For example, did the needle oscillate between 0 and 3-5 in/Hg? or 0 and 15+ in/Hg? If the former the VSV needs cleaning or replacing.

PS. Not sure what you meant by: "the hose connected to side of the air filter throttle" If this is the hose between port B and the throttle body, and if the port B end is disconnected while the engine is running, you should get about 21 in/Hg worth of vacuum sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hqfking

When I connect it to the battery, I can hear a small sound of clicking. And as shown from the picture, after disconnected the hoses in A and B, when I start the engine, I didn't hear suction sound from A or B. However, the hose connected to the B has a suction sound.

I also removed the hose connected to side of the air filter throttle. Didn't feel any suction sound.