3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
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4th Gen (1998) Rear lights melting sockets and exploding - some advice
Hello-
This is my first post, although I plan to stick around.
Anyways, one of my cars is a 1998 Toyota Camry LE. It's the 2.2 Liter inline 4 cylinder base engine. I just checked the rear lights, and they all are black and have melted the holders that hold them into the actual lights, and two bulbs have actually exploded, leaving glass shards throughout the light. There are 3 lights per rear brake light, (The side-marker, brake, and trunk illumination) and all 6 (both sides) have melted the socket, as well as the surrounding area. These are the correct wattage, as to my knowledge, they are the original lights to the car, the only one that has been replaced is the center stoplamp, and that's the only light that is fine.
Don't get me wrong, this car isn't perfect, but I really have not had any other problems besides an issue with the turn signals which is noted below, as they could be related.
What would happen, is the turn signals would flash really fast, exactly as if a bulb was burnt out. However, all the turn signals would be working (albeit flashing rather quickly) , and the hazards would work fine and run at the normal speed. I then noticed that if I smacked the front fender area, the turn signals would start working normally again. This problem resolved itself about two months ago, although it usually seems to happen when I drive through a few inches of snow, which it being summer at the moment I have not had to do lately.
All this seems to be related to the exterior electrical system, everything on the inside has worked great since the car was new. The car has been garaged all its life, and has previously lived in Palm Springs, CA, so corrosion is probably not an issue. Here in Colorado it is parked in a heated garage.
If it helps at all, for about 5 years the car just sat in the garage unused, as it used to be my grandmothers. She gave the car to my dad, who put a few miles on it commuting, and finally it was given to me. It now has almost exactly 137k, and before I got the car the only mainence that had been done was oil changes (Yes, it still had the factory air filter ) I have now changed the timing belt, transmission fluid, and coolant. (I did it myself)
Anyways, if anyone has any advice, I would be very appreciative, as this is pretty weird.
Thank you!
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2006 Scion tC 5spd ~ 60k miles
Last edited by mgartner0622; 07-13-2011 at 12:15 PM.
From the wiring diagram, the area in which the problem is located may be in the upper trunk, on the driver [left] side. The area in question would be on the rear trunk lid itself, and also possibly on the part of the car that is adjacent to the rear left trunk lid
The wires involved appear to be green, and also green with orange stripe.
Can you give this area of the car a quick visual inspection ... see if there is any sign of burning, loss of insulation, or something else that is not normal.
.... Suspect that something is shorting out ... somehow connecting to the green wires .... but not sure exactly what.
Is the 10A Tail fuse still good?
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98 Camry LE, 2.2L, automatic
50k miles, drop in K&N A/F recent timing belt, water pump
From the wiring diagram, the area in which the problem is located may be in the upper trunk, on the driver [left] side. The area in question would be on the rear trunk lid itself, and also possibly on the part of the car that is adjacent to the rear left trunk lid
The wires involved appear to be green, and also green with orange stripe.
Can you give this area of the car a quick visual inspection ... see if there is any sign of burning, loss of insulation, or something else that is not normal.
.... Suspect that something is shorting out ... somehow connecting to the green wires .... but not sure exactly what.
Is the 10A Tail fuse still good?
The fuse has never blown to my knowledge.
The only indication I got of the problem was that the rear bulb out light in the speedo console came on, and I opened it up to replace the bulb, only to find that the socket was completely melted and the bulb was exploded. Then being curious, I checked the other lights to find that they were the same.
I'm going to check the wires in a few minutes and get back to you.
... take a look at the wire harness on the rear trunk lid where it goes from the trunk to the main body of the car.
I think this would be over on the left hand side .... probably where the hinge is.
... Thinking that repeated opening and closing of the trunk lid may have caused fraying of the insulation, or some sort of metal to wire contact.
I just checked it. The wiring was wrapped electrical tape like it was from the factory, I undid that to look, and everything looked good with no fraying or loose wires. Honestly, the trunk on this car probably has been used less than 30 times since new (The trunk even still smells new) so it's probably not excessive wear on the wires near the hinge mechanism.
Flashing back to when I inherited the car though, no lights on the car worked, including the interior illumination and dome light. Through a combination of changing the fuse for the headlight, and slapping the lights a few times (Which fixes pretty much anything in this car. ) I got everything to work again, and it's been good until now. However, since I have not looked at the rear lights ever before, this could have been going on for years. What could also be related, is that the fuse for the odo likes to blow, which controls all the gauges as well. This makes my check engine light come on, as it resets the speed sensors. Could it be the main electrical harness to the fuse box is bad?
On a side note, I just turned on the lights in the garage. The melting is so bad on the left side that it melted through the main brake light's partition and into the turn signal, so now the left turn signal is illuminated when my lights are on.
New idea :
There is a Light Failure Sensor part, located on the driver side rear quarter ......maybe a foot or two in front of the left tail light assembly .... looks like it is mounted on the sheet metal someplace .... might be covered by carpet or something.
This part should have a green wire, a green wire with orange stripe, a white wire with black stripe, a red wire with blue stripe, and a yellow wire with green stripe going into it.
This part is connected to the side marker / tail bulbs .... both sides, and also the tail light bulbs. It is not directly connected to the stop light bulbs, which may be the reason that they appear to be working.
If the Light Failure Sensor is internally shorted, it could conceivably cause the socket and related heating problems which you have described.
Can you locate the LFS on your car? Is there any visual indication that something might be wrong with it?
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98 Camry LE, 2.2L, automatic
50k miles, drop in K&N A/F recent timing belt, water pump
New idea :
There is a Light Failure Sensor part, located on the driver side rear quarter ......maybe a foot or two in front of the left tail light assembly .... looks like it is mounted on the sheet metal someplace .... might be covered by carpet or something.
This part should have a green wire, a green wire with orange stripe, a white wire with black stripe, a red wire with blue stripe, and a yellow wire with green stripe going into it.
This part is connected to the side marker / tail bulbs .... both sides, and also the tail light bulbs. It is not directly connected to the stop light bulbs, which may be the reason that they appear to be working.
If the Light Failure Sensor is internally shorted, it could conceivably cause the socket and related heating problems which you have described.
Can you locate the LFS on your car? Is there any visual indication that something might be wrong with it?
I found it, although it looks to be permanently attached to the frame. From what I can see, the exterior of the box looks brand new.. no heat discoloration, or anything of that sort. I pulled the plug out of it, and all the connection points inside look perfect, no discoloration, melting, or warping from heat.
I couldnt get the camera in close enough to take a picture of the other side of it, but it looks fine as well.
I've attached a few pictures, as well as one of the bulbs that I just changed yesterday...
And now for my melted side light on the driver's side:
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2006 Scion tC 5spd ~ 60k miles
Last edited by mgartner0622; 07-13-2011 at 09:13 PM.
Not too sure ..... .
Maybe there is some sort of simple continuity check for the LFS.
The only thing that kind of rationalizes things is that the heat damage is caused by the light bulbs being constantly on.
Maybe the wiring itself is not a part of the heating problem ... just the big light bulbs.
... Need to take another look at the LFS ... see if there is some other diagnostic to check ... resistance or something.
__________________
98 Camry LE, 2.2L, automatic
50k miles, drop in K&N A/F recent timing belt, water pump
Not too sure ..... .
Maybe there is some sort of simple continuity check for the LFS.
The only thing that kind of rationalizes things is that the heat damage is caused by the light bulbs being constantly on.
Maybe the wiring itself is not a part of the heating problem ... just the big light bulbs.
... Need to take another look at the LFS ... see if there is some other diagnostic to check ... resistance or something.
Well, thanks for all your help, but at this point I think i'm just going to replace the light assemblies, and find the smallest bulbs possible. Hopefully it won't happen again.
Like somebody else suggested on the forum tonight, it might be worth a trip to a salvage yard to pick up a used LFS from a gen 4 Camry.
It looks like too much current is being passed through the LFS to the combination light bulbs ... tail/sidemarker.
If that is the case, then replacing any melted parts won't do any good.
I don't see anything else that could cause the problem except the LFS.
The circuit diagram shows an internal resistor within the LFS .... I suspect that particular resistor is shorted or burned out ... allowing too much current to get to the bulbs, causing them run hot.
.... Would just like to see you get it fixed.
__________________
98 Camry LE, 2.2L, automatic
50k miles, drop in K&N A/F recent timing belt, water pump
Like somebody else suggested on the forum tonight, it might be worth a trip to a salvage yard to pick up a used LFS from a gen 4 Camry.
It looks like too much current is being passed through the LFS to the combination light bulbs ... tail/sidemarker.
If that is the case, then replacing any melted parts won't do any good.
I don't see anything else that could cause the problem except the LFS.
The circuit diagram shows an internal resistor within the LFS .... I suspect that particular resistor is shorted or burned out ... allowing too much current to get to the bulbs, causing them run hot.
.... Would just like to see you get it fixed.
Thanks-
I just searched on craigslist and there is a guy parting out a camry that is identical to mine (he said it had rod knock), and it's a you pick, you pull sort of deal.
I'll get that LFS, as well as new parts, and just replace everything. You're right, if i'm going to try and fix this, I might as well replace the LFS which has the highest probability of being the problem.
Thanks again!
What would happen, is the turn signals would flash really fast, exactly as if a bulb was burnt out. However, all the turn signals would be working (albeit flashing rather quickly)....
I have the exact same car and problem! Not with the rear bulbs being melted or anything like that but with the turn signals flashing fast intermittently and then getting better after I get out and hit the front turn signal light housing. Now my rear brake failure warning light keeps coming on whenever I step on the brake peddle, it stays on a few minutes until I hit the brake peddle again, then it goes off. However, whenever I turn my headlights on, the warning light stays on until I turn off the car itself. I've had the rear brake warning light problem looked at by a Toyota service shop and they found a short and replaced some bulbs about 4 months ago, the problem was fixed for awhile until now when the rear brake failure light came back on. Yesterday I got fed up and went out to the front of the car and opened the hood, I messed around with the right turn signal housing after it started to flash fast again and found that after moving the housing the problems with the rear brake warning light and fast flashing went away for longer than I expected! But they came back as soon as I hit the road again!!! Whatever it is, the problem seems to have something to do with the light housing becoming loose and the headlight switch being turned on! Can't figure this out!!!!!
I feel for you too! Hope you find a solution!
What would happen, is the turn signals would flash really fast, exactly as if a bulb was burnt out. However, all the turn signals would be working (albeit flashing rather quickly)....
I have the exact same car and problem! Not with the rear bulbs being melted or anything like that but with the turn signals flashing fast intermittently and then getting better after I get out and hit the front turn signal light housing. Now my rear brake failure warning light keeps coming on whenever I step on the brake peddle, it stays on a few minutes until I hit the brake peddle again, then it goes off. However, whenever I turn my headlights on, the warning light stays on until I turn off the car itself. I've had the rear brake warning light problem looked at by a Toyota service shop and they found a short and replaced some bulbs about 4 months ago, the problem was fixed for awhile until now when the rear brake failure light came back on. Yesterday I got fed up and went out to the front of the car and opened the hood, I messed around with the right turn signal housing after it started to flash fast again and found that after moving the housing the problems with the rear brake warning light and fast flashing went away for longer than I expected! But they came back as soon as I hit the road again!!! Whatever it is, the problem seems to have something to do with the light housing becoming loose and the headlight switch being turned on! Can't figure this out!!!!!
I feel for you too! Hope you find a solution!
I don't know about your situation, but this problem seems to be compounded in my car by wet weather. I also drive on dirt roads a lot, which may compound the issue.
Anyways, my rear brake failure light did the same thing a few months ago, before I changed any of the bulbs and noticed any of the melting that is in there. It did it for about two weeks, and I don't drive the car that much, so after looking at all the lights and seeing if they work, I decided to just ignore it for the time being. All of the sudden, it stopped happening. At the same time, my turn signals stopped flashing rapidly as well.
I just replaced the rear light failure sensor module (the little grey box in the pictures) as advised by a forum member above. This seems to have solved all my issues, at least for the time being, so if you can find a cheap unit to replace yours, it's probably worth it.
What I don't understand however, is the fact that the turn signals stopped flashing rapidly at the exact same time of this other problem, and since replacing the lamp failure module, I have not had this happen since. It's probably just coicidence for my turn signals, although I do remember spray washing out my hood right before the problem with the turn signals ceased. I don't know where you live, but it may just be an accumulation of road debris and winter salt, ect. that causes the turn signals to do this...at least that's what i'm hoping.
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2006 Scion tC 5spd ~ 60k miles
The Following User Says Thank You to mgartner0622 For This Useful Post:
I don't know about your situation, but this problem seems to be compounded in my car by wet weather. I also drive on dirt roads a lot, which may compound the issue.
Anyways, my rear brake failure light did the same thing a few months ago, before I changed any of the bulbs and noticed any of the melting that is in there. It did it for about two weeks, and I don't drive the car that much, so after looking at all the lights and seeing if they work, I decided to just ignore it for the time being. All of the sudden, it stopped happening. At the same time, my turn signals stopped flashing rapidly as well.
I just replaced the rear light failure sensor module (the little grey box in the pictures) as advised by a forum member above. This seems to have solved all my issues, at least for the time being, so if you can find a cheap unit to replace yours, it's probably worth it.
What I don't understand however, is the fact that the turn signals stopped flashing rapidly at the exact same time of this other problem, and since replacing the lamp failure module, I have not had this happen since. It's probably just coicidence for my turn signals, although I do remember spray washing out my hood right before the problem with the turn signals ceased. I don't know where you live, but it may just be an accumulation of road debris and winter salt, ect. that causes the turn signals to do this...at least that's what i'm hoping.
Thanks for the tip, I live in NYC and the weather here was pretty bad this past winter. I think the problems started around this time! Maybe corrosion, maybe the lamp failure module? I'll try the module to see if that works. How much did you have to pay for yours?
Do you have to item number etc...
Thanks again.
Juan
Thanks for the tip, I live in NYC and the weather here was pretty bad this past winter. I think the problems started around this time! Maybe corrosion, maybe the lamp failure module? I'll try the module to see if that works. How much did you have to pay for yours?
Do you have to item number etc...
Thanks again.
Juan
Everything you need is in the top photo I posted on this forum. It's the grey box, I'm not sure which is the model number but i'm guessing it's the 89373-33180 one.
The guy who I got mine from was parting out his Camry due to rod knock, and he just charged me $10. I found it on craigslist and it was the same year, engine, and even color as my car, so I was sure it was the right part.
After I plugged in the new failure module and changed all my bulbs, the problem has not yet surfaced, although it's only been a few days. I guess only time will tell.
By the way, to get to the lamp failure module, you have to pull back the liner on the side of the trunk about a foot, and it's right there on the left side. You may have to remove a few of the button things that hold in the liner, just firmly pull on them until they release.
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2006 Scion tC 5spd ~ 60k miles
Last edited by mgartner0622; 07-17-2011 at 09:06 PM.
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4th Gen (1998) Rear lights melting sockets and exploding - some advice
) I have now changed the timing belt, transmission fluid, and coolant. (I did it myself)
recent timing belt, water pump
) I got everything to work again, and it's been good until now. However, since I have not looked at the rear lights ever before, this could have been going on for years. What could also be related, is that the fuse for the odo likes to blow, which controls all the gauges as well. This makes my check engine light come on, as it resets the speed sensors. Could it be the main electrical harness to the fuse box is bad?
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