1999 Camry misfires at 4200 rpm and above

[nwstehle]

I am verily vexed.

What would cause a 1999 Camry to misfire/act up at 4200 rpm and above?

We very recently had the engine replaced on our 1999 Camry (V4). (it had 110,000 miles on it) while on a trip. There were some issues with the repair that have been resolved, but our local mechanic is having a very hard time solving a problem. The car has been in the shop since last Monday.

Otherwise the vehicle drives fine (according to our mechanic). It is not the crankshaft sensor as it produced the expected square wave. They were pretty confident on this being the source of the problem on last Tuesday evening.

It is not the timing belt.

A few things they are considering:
1. Non-iridium sparkplugs were installed in the tune-up of the engine.
2. The fuel pump/pressure gauge.

They do not think it is a sensor issue since there are no electronic codes coming back so that is why they think it is likely a timing issue.

My poor wife is stuck at home with the boys in the heat so she is growing extremely frustrated. I want this done now and do not know how to proceed.

The mechanics who installed the used engine do not know the exact year of the engine, but it is matched based on the vehicle VIN when the part is sourced. The manager said it was probably the 2.2L engine and within a year or two of 1999.

The engine meets federal emissions standards, not California (as would be expected).

They used the existing wiring harness from our car as it is part of the engine block.

In talking to the mechanic on Friday, he mentioned that the MAF sensor was reading 5-6 Volts? mV? (whatever the units are, but he said it was voltage) high. So the vacuum in the engine at this level rpm (4200) is too high.

One of the problems is testing it at this rpm level since it is accelerating at highway speeds that causes it. Another problem is that there are no error codes.

In talking to the mechanic on Friday, he mentioned that the MAF sensor was reading 5-6 Volts? mV? (whatever the units are, but he said it was voltage) high. So the vacuum in the engine at this level rpm (4200) is too high.

I just want to know what should be looked at and have this issue resolved.

[hill8570]

Originally Posted by nwstehle

In talking to the mechanic on Friday, he mentioned that the MAF sensor was reading 5-6 Volts? mV? (whatever the units are, but he said it was voltage) high. So the vacuum in the engine at this level rpm (4200) is too high

Color me confused, but the 2.2L doesn't have a MAF -- it's got an absolute pressure sensor (MAP). So, are we troubleshooting a 4-banger or a 6-banger? Assuming you meant MAP, 5-6mV is nothin', 5-6V is full-range (power to the MAP is 5V +/- 0.5V). Does he suspect the MAP (and, if so, did he test it with a vacuum puller per the FSM test procedures to see if it was in spec?). Or, does he think the actual manifold vacuum is too high (and why)?

When they dropped in the new engine, did they swap over all the ignition, emission controls, etc. do-dads from the old engine?

What sort of plugs were used? Did the wires come from your old engine, or the drop-in?

Does it misfire under any other high-load circumstances (such as climbing a steep hill)?

[nwstehle]

Huh, looked up MAF for a 1999 Camry and I found it...well, then it's a MAP I guess. The units were not mentioned.

Sorry, I thought that was in the post. it's a V4.

I've asked them to look at the MAP. No word on it.

Presumably they swapped everything over. The only new stuff were plugs, wires and a water pump. If it doesn't come with an engine, it was swapped over. Those were the only other items listed.

As far as I know, it only acts up when trying to accelerate hard (like on an on-ramp). When we drove it home, there are some hills, and I noticed nothing. I didn't push it however.

[JustinC25]

Ok, so we are working with a 5S-FE 2.2l I4 (No disrespect, but Toyota doesn't make V4's, actually Saab was the only car in the us to use a V4 back in the 50's to the best of my knowledge.) Anyway, you brought up plugs. These cars like ONLY the factory DENSO double ground platinum plugs, or the NGK of the same spec, but the NGK are more money. I would start there, they can be had for between 6-7 bucks each from the Toyota dealer. These cars typically develop strange misfires on other plugs, namely Champions, and especially Bosch platinums. I would also take a look at the plug wires, and look for any cracking or carbon tracing on the wire jacket, this would also cause a misfire. Aftermarket wires also have been known to be unreliable in our cars. (With the exception of NGK, Denso, and Sumitomo [if you can find them]) A good set of NGK wires can be had on rockauto for about $35 bucks. (I just did them in my grandma's '99)
Please let us know what kind of plugs are in the car as well. I can almost certanly guarantee if they aren't Denso, or NGK then the plugs are your problem. If your old engine ran ok before the trouble that caused the swap, I would look at the things that were changed during the swap.

Let us know what you find out.

[nwstehle]

Thanks for the education. It helps! I am trying to learn along the way.

Here's an updated summary:


What would cause a 1999 Camry to misfire/act up at 4200 rpm and above?

We very recently had the engine replaced on our 1999 Camry (V4; it had 110,000 miles on it) while on a trip. There were some issues with the repair that have been resolved, but our local mechanic is having a very hard time solving one last problem they found. The car has been in the shop locally since last Monday (7/18/11).

The mechanics that installed the used engine do not know the exact year of the engine, but it is matched based on the vehicle VIN when the part is sourced. The manager said it was probably the 2.2L engine and within a year or two of 1999. The engine meets federal emissions standards, not California’s (as would be expected). They used the existing wiring harness from our car, as it is part of the engine block. The only new parts listed were the water pump, plugs, wires and timing belt. So my guess would be that the other items were transferred from our old engine.

Otherwise the vehicle drives fine (according to our local mechanic).
It is not the crankshaft sensor as it produced the expected square wave. They were initially pretty confident on this being the source of the problem on last Tuesday evening.

It is not the timing belt. It checked out fine.

The spark plugs are now iridium. The wiring has been replaced, again.

The fuel pressure is fine and checks out (pump, regulator).

Visually the PCM is fine.

They do not think it is a sensor issue since there are no electronic codes coming back so that is why they think it is a timing issue.

In talking to the mechanic on Friday, he mentioned that the MAP sensor was reading 5-6 Volts? mV? (whatever the units are, but he said it was voltage) high. The upshot being that the vacuum in the engine at this level rpm (4200) is too high.

One of the problems is testing it at this rpm level since it is that accelerating up to highway speeds is the only thing that seems to cause it. I myself did not notice it while driving it home. Another complication is that there are no error codes.

Another detail just learned is that at idle it shows a 42% load.

My wife pointed out that this problem might have been present before...we might never hit 4200 rpm and I didn't see it when I drove the vehicle home.

Thanks for any insights you have.

[JustinC25]

ok, so just to make sure, it has Denso, or NGK plugs right ? If it has Denso, or NGK plugs then we can move forward, if they are ANY other brand then they may still be causing the problem even if they are new. I also ask for clarification, because you mention that it has Iridium plugs, This car calls for platinum, but the iridium will be ok, if they are the right brand.
You also said that it has new wires. The next thing I would check for is a cracked coil. They are located on the driver's side of the head. Just follow the plug wires. There are 2 ignition coils. (1 for every 2 cylinders) and they are held in place with 2 10 mm bolts.
and 3 electrical connections ( 2 plug wires, and an electrical connector from the computer)
Look for cracks in the coil body (usually near the epoxy) and any carbon tracing.
Also has this triggered a Check engine light ? If so what is the code ?
P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, or some other code ??

Thanks

[nwstehle]

No codes. No check engine light.

Supposedly the car calls for iridium, but I've heard both.

Right now I am working off of the information from the mechanic and this work is not something I would attempt myself. I;.m trying to gather additional information since the Camry has been out of commission for almost two weeks.

They are about to give up and have us drive it to see if we can get some codes.

[Pvt-Public]

1. Non-iridium sparkplugs were installed in the tune-up of the engine.

Supposedly the car calls for iridium, but I've heard both.

False, the FSM for the 1997-2001 models with the 5S-FE says:
Recommended spark plug:
DENSO made PK20TR11
NGK made BKR6EKPB11
and the owners manual says
“Use only twin ground electrode platinum–tipped spark plugs for your engine performance.”
Which the above 2 are.

The iridiums were recommended for the 2AZ-FE in the 2002 and later models.

The mechanics that installed the used engine do not know the exact year of the engine, but it is matched based on the vehicle VIN when the part is sourced. The manager said it was probably the 2.2L engine and within a year or two of 1999.

They don't know what engine they installed? What the hell kind of fly by night shop are you using. My best advice is to get your car to a real shop where they at least can tell you what engine they used.

[nwstehle]

Well, we were in Chicago and we went with a shop that was AAA approved and has an A-rating form the BBB. What else could I do?

We are with a new, good shop.

[Pvt-Public]

I don't know how the AAA rating works, but with the BBB, as long as you pay your dues on time you get a good rating.

[nwstehle]

Well, supposedly to get a AAA approval they have to get recommendations and pass an inspection of some sort. Is that accurate? Don't know. But as I said, it was the best we had.

A complaint has been lodged with the BBB. A complaint will be submitted to AAA.

Some online reviews will follow too.

[JustinC25]

Please ask the shop what brand plugs are installed in the car, since we have established that they are not the right ones, they may still be the problem.

I would buy a set from the dealer and install them. I would also check the coils for cracks.
Misfires are not rocket science, lets get back to basics to solve this thing.

[nwstehle]

Results from test drive (after current, local mechanic had the vehicle):
1. Transmission shifted late
2. Engine performance poor (bucking and jerking)
3. Spark plug tubes had oil in them
4. Ignition wires were arcing

Fixes:
1. Adjusted transmission fluid level
2. Adjusted kick down linkage
3. Replaced valve cover gasket
4. Replaces spark plug tube seals
5. Replaced spark plugs with iridium plugs
6. Replaced spark plug wires

Observations:
1. Engine performance normal up to 4200 rpm
2. Fuel pressure volume and volume were normal
3. Live sensor readings normal above and below 4200 rpm
4. Lab scope test shows crankshaft sensor pattern appears weak but normal at 4200 rpm
5. Lab scope test showed camshaft position sensor is normal
6. Exhaust back pressure is normal (1-2 psi)
7. Timing alignment is correct
8. Ignition system and coils tested for RFI and they were normal
9. Fuel injectors pulse width drops from 18-20 ms to 8 ms under hard acceleration at 4200 rpm
10. Possible PCM or wiring concern, but no DTCS were stored and there is no other supporting data
11. PCM fine on visual inspection.

No notes regarding MAP sensor or 42% load at idle.

So "misfire" is not an accurate way to describe the trouble observed.

[BamZipPow]

Were the fuel injectors pulled and bench tested fer pattern flow and volume?
I'm sure they performed a compression test...did they give you the numbers fer those?

[nwstehle]

Don't know on the test specifics and I have no numbers. Will try to get them.