Huge cut in power, knock sensor?

[TRD_Sloara]

So I went to the track last night to see how I'd do with my new Injen intake. Starting with my first run, the car was simply slower than it should be, almost a second slower than it was a few weeks back with stock intake. I could feel the power being cut and then coming back, it felt like it was electrical, or ECU-induced, yet I never had a CEL. It only occurred in first, and sometimes second gear. I'm going to get the ECU scanned for any stored codes today, but I have never seen the light come on, save for when they all light up when you first turn the ignition on. I heard that if you raise the boost, the OEM knock sensor will crap out due to hearing the supercharger whine, but is an aftermarket intake enough to fool the KS into thinking it's hearing detonation? It whines significantly louder than before, but it seems like you have to raise boost to 6 lbs before you even start to see blown KS's from what I've read and even still you'd get a CEL. Car drives perfectly fine otherwise, even during a WOT 1-2 gear run while getting on the interstate leaving the track.

[dorifuto.boi]

you can plug a scanner in the obd2 and see if it reads knock count. compare the knock count with the injen sri and the stock intake.

if the ecu doesnt provide knock count, then compare the ignition retard with the injen sri and the stock intake.

ignition is probably being retarded more with the injen sri. if it is, then your question would be if the ignition timing is being retarded because of real detonation or 'fake' detonation. honestly its probably being retarded because of real detonation. your engine detonates easier with the injen intake because its sucking in hot air.....

one way to test to see if my theory is true is to just extend your injen intake somewhere so it can suck in air with the same temperature as outside. if with the extension your ecu doesnt retard it as much, then my theory is correct....

[TRD_Sloara]

I strongly doubt that is the case, as I iced down the intake pipe and supercharger in between runs last night, and the intake pipe was pretty cold right before the runs. The top end is good, but I was literally getting beat in first and second gear by a stock second gen Explorer. I have never heard of any issues like this while searching the forums at solaraguy, just a bunch of blown knock sensors due to raised boost, with corresponding CELs.

Also, the last time I went to the track, it was a little warmer outside, and I was heatsoaking with the stock intake setup as well. Under hood temps were significantly cooler this time since I took out the driver headlamp, and iced everything down for 20 mins between runs.

The difference between the first time, with a stock intake and under hood temps so hot I could barely stand to touch the hood long enough to unlatch it, and this time, was "that seemed like a nice run. Wait, my trap speed is down though, and my ET is slower despite getting a better 60 ft" vs. "wow, I'm not going anywhere at all (in first and/or 2nd gear). Wait, power is back in 3rd gear, trapping mid-90s still".

[dorifuto.boi]

theres no real way to test if the whine is causing a knock sensor reading except for finding a way to play the frequencies that the s/c whine makes throughout the rpm range and playing that really loud against the block somehow and looking at the knock sensor readings or the timing readings.

i dunno what frequencies resonates through the 1mz cylinders so i dunno if the supercharger whine will cause a resonation.

if the intake was the only thing you changed, then i dont see anything else being the problem except for temperature and air flow.

you said the temperature isnt the problem.

i dont see how the air flow would be a problem either because the injen sri is the same diameter as the stock pipe therefore the air that flows through is at the same velocity as it would be with the stock intake. and since the injen tubing is the same diameter, the maf is also right in the middle of the tube as it is in the stock intake so that wouldn't cause a change in anything

[TRD_Sloara]

Just scanned the computer, no codes are stored at all.

[trd4life]

If your running a stock trd 4psi setup with an injen intake and you DONT have a jims fuel mod them thats the problem right there. 4psi with an intake will cause you to run extremely lean unless you have an safc to tune, more fuel pressure, bigger injectors, meth,something. Please list all your performance mods.

[TRD_Sloara]

It's a stock TRD outfitted Solara (has the TRD sticker in the door jam), with the TRD supercharger presumed to be running 4 pounds, TRD muffler and now an Injen intake. Now that I know that, I will put the stock intake back in for now. I had absolutely no idea that merely putting an aftermarket intake on this car, installed properly with all three lines still connected to the pipe could cause issues. It's a good thing someone on Solaraguy is parting out his car including the Jim's fuel mod

Is there a mod progression recommendation anywhere, for this car/build? I've done what seems like a ton of research on both this forum and SG and I still keep running into issues that simply didn't pop up in any research. All I really find is people's mod list, with no progression/prerequisite mods mentioned. For example, I had absolutely no idea the Jim's fuel mod was recommended for an intake install, only that it was required for raising boost.

[fenixus]

a little off topic. does anybody know the OBD2 PID for Toyota ECU Knock Count? trying to find that, but having a hard time ...

[TRD_Sloara]

I'm no expert, but when I scanned it today using O'Reilly's OBDII scanner, I tried to find an option for that, but couldn't.

[fenixus]

that won't be in standard OBD2 PIDs, I'm pretty sure an Extended/Extra PID config is needed using Mode 22 (manufacturer specific) or some re-mapping is needed.

I had to use a manual formula entry to get the A/F Ratio (AFR and Lambda ratio are both on same PID for each engine bank).

BTW: here's the standard OBD2 listing for Toyotas, it's pretty good, but no Knock Count in there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs

Originally Posted by TRD_Sloara

I'm no expert, but when I scanned it today using O'Reilly's OBDII scanner, I tried to find an option for that, but couldn't.

[camrtm3]

Haha. I know these issues all too well.

Yes this is a knock sensor related issue. You are running the engine too lean! simple. I first look back at what I did. I put a manual transmission in a automatic tuned car. This one leaned out my engine. Then of course the whine killed the original knock sensors. SO Relocation if you havent already done so would be recommended. I am assuming that you have a solara which is equivalent to the gen 4 and the gen 3.5 (96 only). So relocating to the front for the front engine hook would be highly recommended first if you havent. I dont know soooooo forgive me if you have.

Knock count is random. I have had it as low as 2 consecutive pings on the same bank. I am running lean right now. I can only tell cause my exhaust has different smells from lean to rich. I just need to get my afr and safc in. I have both on order. My recommendation would be to get it tuned. Your engine is always more considered about emissions then performance. Cold air fools the MAF sensor putting less fuel in the engine, therefore leaning you out.

[a94autoCamry]

even if you are running with stock 4 pounds, I still suggest getting it tuned if you haven't already. I did relocate the knock sensors with a GM knock sensor and that helped a little bit. Once I got on circuit track...about 10 minutes into the session a CEL would come on. Huge loss of power so I pull off track into the pits. Scanned it and it was my knock sensors. The problem with the GM knock sensor is that the wire isn't really that stable and can wiggle.

I erase the code and replugged the GM knock sensor and it CEL would still come back (loose wire problem again and I am tuned btw)

I got tired of running the GM knock sensor so therefore I picked up a meth injection kit, removed the GM knock sensor, replaced the stock toyota knock sensors and got it tuned again. Went to the track and no more problems. (I'm at 4psi also btw)

The important thing is to get a tune and also a meth injection kit to help with denotation. With this, you shouldn't have knock sensor issues.

[TRD_Sloara]

Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to get the meth injection after doing the fuel line/filter mod. It would be really nice being able to track the car without worrying too much about heatsoaking/knock.

[a94autoCamry]

^ np. Once you get the meth kit, the supercharger will stay cold when you are constantly gunning it / in boost.

But yea, a re-tune will be needed once you throw the meth kit in there into ur car.