3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
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I have a 1994, 4 cylinder, 2.2L, manual transmission Camry. I changed the timing belt, but the car is running rough and slowly at idle and hesitates (knocking) when I give it throtle. At higher rpms, it runs smoothly. The timing marks check out perfectly.
In the process of diagnosing the timing belt problem, I removed the distributor, the valve cover and PCV valve hose. I marked the disributor exactly and reinstalled it when it checked out. I replaced the valve cover with a new gasket and torqued it down and reinstalled the PCV hose. All the hoses seem tight, too. I also checked the spark plug wires (which are new and OEM) for continuity. So at this point, my best guess is that the timing might be off. A friend hooked up his OBD1 scanner to the port, but the onboard computer did not record any DTCs.
What is the best procedure for timing my car? I can't find any info in my manual about how many degrees from TDC the timing should be.
I also got a new fuel filter, but I haven't installed it yet.
Get a timing gun and double check timing. It could also be your using wrong timing mark on the cam. Its the V notch and not the circle.
When you rotate camshaft it'll pop 4 times to make a full revolution. One of these pops is 100% spot on the timing V notch. If you did not set it to this you'll think your spot on but your not.
Also, vacuum in general makes very little difference how the engine runs high RPM. A t idle a vacuum leak will be noticable but at high revs it might appear to disappear.
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Carsrus: thanks for your reply. I lined the hole in the cam with the notch that is at tdc. I ran the engine for a while and checked the marks, and they were perfect. Should I use a tach to check the timing, and can I use the dashboard tach and run it at 700 rpms for the timing light?
The Timing light doesn't actually tell you if the timing belt is correct. It adjusts the Ignition timing (When the spark plugs give off a spark).
Its always a good idea to make sure that is correct too. Make sure to Jump the TE1 and E1 pins on the datalink connector before running the timing light as well and adjusting the distributor. Watch out for grabbing the housing a whole lot, as it can arc off a spark and shock you pretty good.
When you say that it bogs down when you give it throttle and knocks, that tells me theres a few possible scenarios.
1. Your Rod bearings could be going bad (Knocking)
2. Your distributor ignition timing could be off (Causing the hesitation)
3. Your Timing itself can be slightly retarded (Off TDC)
There can be other factors that cause a slow throttle response, but those are very common (2-3).
Right now, if your rods are knocking a little on acceleration thats no big deal. Its very fixable. What you could do is drop the pan and balancer and check the rods for tightness. Any movement in and out (pulling and pushing) Indicates that the clearances are getting too far. More than likely if they are going bad, since its only doing it slightly your only going to have one or two rods out of 4 that have excessive clearance.
Get the ignition timing / base timing correct before tearing the pan apart though!
Thanks for your reply. What is the difference between 1) the ignition timing and 2) the timing itself being slightly retarded? Are suggesting the pulleys coud be slightly off? The marks look absolutely perfect.
The engine has always run perfectly until the timing belt broke, so my assumption is that the current problem is related to timing. It has never knocked before.
Do I need to use a tach when I use the light? How many degrees BTDC should I shoot for? 12 degrees?
Don't confuse camshaft timing with ignition timing. They are related, but separate. Make 100% certain you camshaft timing is correct. Is there anyway you can post a picture of the camshaft marks? (you'll need a mirror)
To set your ignition timing, warm up the engine, put a jumper wire between TE1 and E1 terminals, connect your timing light pickup to #1 spark plug lead (closest to the timing belt). Factory calls for 10 degrees BTDC, I would set it to exactly that.
__________________ 2000 Lexus ES300 Millenium Edition1MZ-FE 64,000 Km 1993 Camry V6 LE3VZ-FE 164,000 Km SOLD but still in the family 1990 Camry LE2VZ-FE 202,000 Km 1987 Camry LE3S-FE 435,000 Km 1971 Corolla 2-door Coupe2T-C 260,000 miles
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Carsrus: thanks for your reply. I lined the hole in the cam with the notch that is at tdc. I ran the engine for a while and checked the marks, and they were perfect. Should I use a tach to check the timing, and can I use the dashboard tach and run it at 700 rpms for the timing light?
Karen
The notch is not at TDC, if you aligned the cam with the notch that lays at 0 deg, your off. The actual V notch is at about 150 degrees when you look at the cam pulley.
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The camshaft timing refers to the camshaft's position in relation to the crankshaft position. Having both of these in their proper position in respect to each other ensures that the valves (driven by camshaft) will be opening/closing when the pistons (driven by the crankshaft) are in the proper respective place for the most efficiency.
On the other hand, the distributor timing refers strictly to moment of ignition in relation to the camshaft/crankshaft position, and this is controlled by the distributor and when it sends the electricity to create the spark. Since the cam/crank positions are already perfectly synced properly and retained by the timing belt not slipping, now it's important to make sure that the spark hits the spark plugs where fuel ignition will be most efficient in relation to where the cam/crank position is.
Adjusting the distributor timing is done by rotating the distributor, and viewing where the ignition point is in relationship to the crankshaft by using the timing gun/light. The distributor is driven by a camshaft gear, so that's why it's important make sure the timing belt is installed properly first, before checking the timing on the crankshaft pulley.
The timing mark for your engine is 10 degrees before top dead center, which means the notch on the crankshaft pulley will sit at the "10" mark on the plastic timing cover, to the left of "0" when looking from the passenger side. This notch position of 10 degrees is only relevant to ignition timing, and only used for reference when you have the timing gun connected the to battery and the gun's spark plug connector attached to the #1 cylinder spark plug wire (furthest cylinder to passenger side), and are pressing the gun's button. This illuminates the crankshaft pulley at every brief moment of the #1 cylinder ignition, making it appear the notch is resting at the "10", or wherever the timing is set.
If this is not set correctly, that means the spark is not going to the spark plug at the proper moment to burn the gas at the right time. You will get less power and certainly can get knocking when this is not set properly. If the spark comes early, the fuel 'explodes' into the rising piston (knocking sound potential), and if the spark is coming too late, it won't knock but just won't be able to push the piston hard enough because it's already late in the process and moving away from the effective ignition point. Both situations lead to less power (and more engine wear.) This is my very basic understanding atleast, for the sake of an example.
The rpm's are needed to be around the proper idle speed because as the engine revvs up, the distributor is designed to send the spark sooner and sooner because the ignition process has less and less time to develop with the engine turning faster, thus it gives the ignition process more lead time when needed. That's why proper idle is important in setting the timing, where there is no distributor timing advance effecting the equation.
This isn't to suggest that this is definitely the solution to your less power/knocking, but just to explain the impact and importance of proper distributor timing, and why it's a factor and possible solution.
Last edited by WaxonWaxStillOn; 09-08-2011 at 04:03 AM.
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Don't confuse camshaft timing with ignition timing. They are related, but separate. Make 100% certain you camshaft timing is correct. Is there anyway you can post a picture of the camshaft marks? (you'll need a mirror)
To set your ignition timing, warm up the engine, put a jumper wire between TE1 and E1 terminals, connect your timing light pickup to #1 spark plug lead (closest to the timing belt). Factory calls for 10 degrees BTDC, I would set it to exactly that.
What does a jumper wire do when connecting (bridging?) the TE1 and E1 terminals...does that prevent ignition timing advance?
Last edited by WaxonWaxStillOn; 09-08-2011 at 03:19 AM.
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What does a jumper wire do when connecting (bridging?) the TE1 and E1 terminals...does that prevent ignition timing advance?
Yes. If you don't connect the terminals, the timing will be jumping around making it impossible to set.
__________________ 2000 Lexus ES300 Millenium Edition1MZ-FE 64,000 Km 1993 Camry V6 LE3VZ-FE 164,000 Km SOLD but still in the family 1990 Camry LE2VZ-FE 202,000 Km 1987 Camry LE3S-FE 435,000 Km 1971 Corolla 2-door Coupe2T-C 260,000 miles
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I really appreciate your help on this. I think I got the cam shaft gear and crankshaft pulley perect. Here is what I did:
1) I lined up the hole in the cam gear with the engraved notch that is TDC on the engine -- squarely in the middle of the valves. I set the cam gear just like the diagram in my Haynes manual and also in the video I have on changing the belt. Is there another notch somewhere? I did notice that there is a circle engraved in another position on the engine far away from the notch. I ignored that mark. I marked the engine and cam gear with white paint to correspond with the TDC position for quick reference.
2) I lined up the crankshaft pulley notch with the "0" on the scale.
3) I rotated the engine by hand a few times and then I started it and ran for about 15 minutes. When I shut it down, I checked the marks and they were perfect.
Does that sound right? I would send you a picture of it, but I have put everything back together. The image I inserted is how I set the cam and pulley.
The engine was hard to start, and the idle was low and there was hesitation on acceleration. I ran it again yesterday and it did the same thing. The reason I suspect the ignition timing is out is that I removed the distributor during my diagnosis of the problem because the cam shaft was frozen and I was trying to figure out why. It turned out that the water pump had seized, and it was preventing the belt from turning. I marked the distributor before I removed it, and then put it back exactly, but my thinking is that maybe the ignition timing is off. Could it be off?
I don't see how the belt can be off.
What do you think?
Karen
Last edited by KarensCamry; 09-08-2011 at 10:12 AM.
Reason: Add image
I marked the distributor before I removed it, and then put it back exactly, but my thinking is that maybe the ignition timing is off. Could it be off?
Marking the distributor is only good to get it approximately back to where you started.
I can almost guarantee you, that if the engine was timed correctly when you removed the distributor, it is not timed correctly now.
No matter how carefully you marked it, you will never, ever, be able to replace it in the exact position that it was in when you removed it. You must use a timing light and adjust the timing to specs after you re-install the distributor.
Be sure to check the timing after you tighten everything up. A slip of the wrench can throw the timing off.
This is a question for people...is it possible to install the distributor with the rotor pointing 180 degrees in the wrong direction?
I wondered this when I removed and reinstalled mine to change the distributor o-ring. I didn't note which cylinder the rotor was pointing to...it was either #1 or #3. I was worried because gear that fits into the head looked like it could be put back with the rotor pointing in either direction.
Well, I chose #1 and the car ran fine so I didn't have to find out the answer at the time, but would love to know.
Last edited by WaxonWaxStillOn; 09-08-2011 at 10:18 AM.
This is a question for people...is it possible to install the distributor with the rotor pointing 180 degrees in the wrong direction?
No. The design is an offset key that will only fit in one way.
__________________ 2000 Lexus ES300 Millenium Edition1MZ-FE 64,000 Km 1993 Camry V6 LE3VZ-FE 164,000 Km SOLD but still in the family 1990 Camry LE2VZ-FE 202,000 Km 1987 Camry LE3S-FE 435,000 Km 1971 Corolla 2-door Coupe2T-C 260,000 miles
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95 Camry
Hi guys:
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