Timing Belt Question

[zb420]

My '93 Camry 2.2l has 112K mi on it.

Basically one owner.. or at least one family.

The timing belt has never been changed.

How can I tell if this needs to be done and what else should be changed with it and why?

Thanks...

[WaxonWaxStillOn]

Originally Posted by zb420

My '93 Camry 2.2l has 112K mi on it.

Basically one owner.. or at least one family.

The timing belt has never been changed.

How can I tell if this needs to be done and what else should be changed with it and why?

Thanks...

That's a long time and a lot of miles on a timing belt, but definitely not unheard of. The only way to tell what condition it is in is to look at it. To do that you need to follow these steps thru to the point that you take the top cover off (step 14), where you can then inspect it.

When a timing belt is replaced (which includes the belt, idler pulley, tension pulley, and spring), you generally want to do all the things that can only be done when exposing this area of the engine by taking out the timing belt, since it's a time consuming job.

That includes the water pump if it is old and hasn't been changed recently because their lifespan is generally less than the timing belt (if I'm not mistaken.)

Also, this is a very common area for leaks, and the seals are only accessible by removing the timing belt. That includes the oil pump o-ring, oil pump seal, camshaft seal, and crankshaft seal. If these are leaking, you want to replace them. If they aren't, sometimes people replace them anyways since the area is accessible and the seals are inexpensive and they don't last forever.

The oil pump itself can be very worn as well, and if a lot, it can be wise to replace that too. 2 components of the oil pump can be replaced separately instead of the whole unit to save some money (drive rotor and driven rotor) if they are worn. An efficient well-functioning oil pump is always a good thing. I probably should have replaced my whole unit ($100) because the cover had wear marks from the driven rotor, but I just replaced the set ($34).

I think that pretty much covers it.

[zb420]

What should I expect my mechanic to charge.. it's 60$ an hour labor here?

He'll do it right here where I live... at least he has done everything else here.

I see you have a '94. Can I put 15" rims on mine? I heard I couldn't because of the brake calipers or something?

Also, I really want to get those '96 side lights.. or whatever they are called because I like the amber/ clear thing.

Do you have a pic of your car ?

I think I have posted enough of mine already....

Oh heck.. your right here in the SFV.... 818... say it backwards what's it say, 818!

[fenixus]

they charge the longest time consuming part per book. in this case it would be the oil pump seals which per book takes 5.9hrs, so consider around $350 in labor alone plus parts.

good if you can get your own OEM parts cheap online and bring them to the shop (including a gallon of Toyota LLC coolant concentrate). there are good OEM kits on ebay for your year/model including all seals (camshaft, crankshaft, oil pump) and parts like idler, tensioner, spring, water pump (w/o housing is fine), timing belt, etc.

[zb420]

Originally Posted by fenixus

good if you can get your own OEM parts cheap online and bring them to the shop (including a gallon of Toyota LLC coolant concentrate). there are good OEM kits on ebay for your year/model including all seals (camshaft, crankshaft, oil pump) and parts like idler, tensioner, spring, water pump (w/o housing is fine), timing belt, etc.

I assume I would look for timing belt kits?
You know mechanics... they make money on the parts also.
If you bring your own parts and there is a problem with one of them, who would warranty them? The labor?
I already had one of those problems with a pulley that he got from the junk yard that went bad.This is a new mechanic, my old one left to go back to Thailand and he was really good. Had him for almost 20 yrs.
The new one was ok getting another one, but not putting it in for free, but he did. From what I hear that was my bad.. I should have paid him for his labor is what I am told is the proper etiquette.

The old mechanic wasn't the type to go to the junk yard, but there was always no problem if there was one with any part he put in.

This is a rough one to BYOP warranty wise.

You see where I'm coming from ?

[fenixus]

if your mechanic doesn't allow working with quality parts (e.g. your own OEM aquired cheaper than he would) than I'd look for another mechanic.

most mechanics make money on parts, yeah, but they install the cheapest shit parts form autozone too, so you are welcome to try this route if you like ... if you don't mind paying the same labor fees every two years (those cheap parts do not last much longer than that) and their warranty? 12 months I've been there, done that, it sucks.

[zb420]

Understood...and I would look for timing belt kits?

When I put in timing belt kits I only get the belt and no other parts.

So would I have to buy these individually...

www.ebay.com

see what you can find real quick... if you don't mind?

thanks

[JohnGD]

If the mechanic has to make a living by grossly marking up parts then find another one. If there is little markup there should be no objection to using your parts. And I don't recommend getting a pulley from a junkyard.

A sample list for the 5SFE timing belt job should typically have the following (including the oil pump o-ring, aka UFO, spaghetti, fish etc in the crank seal set). You may want to add PCV valve/grommet, spark plugs, radiator hoses and cap for example.

GATES K030295 Micro-V AT Power Steering Belt $5.14
GATES K050435 Micro-V AT Alt/AC Belt $14.10
FEL-PRO TCS45920 Crankshaft Front Seal Set $5.10
FEL-PRO TCS45641 Camshaft Front Seal $3.66
NATIONAL 221820 Polyacrylate Oil Pump Shaft Seal $2.86
GATES TCK199 (1 Belt, 1 Tensioner, 1 Idler) Timing Belt Component Kit
$52.89
STANT 48278 180° w/Jiggle Pin OE Type Thermostat $10.94
AISIN (OEM) WPT010A Water pump w/o housing $30.79
FEL-PRO VS50304R1 Valve Cover Gasket Set w/Spark plug tube seals
$18.26
Subtotal $143.74
Shipping about $20

[zb420]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

If the mechanic has to make a living by grossly marking up parts then find another one. If there is little markup there should be no objection to using your parts.

A sample list for the 5SFE timing belt job should typically have the following (including the oil pump o-ring, aka UFO, spaghetti, fish etc in the crank seal set). You may want to add PCV valve/grommet, spark plugs, radiator hoses and cap for example.

GATES K030295 Micro-V AT Power Steering Belt $5.14
GATES K050435 Micro-V AT Alt/AC Belt $14.10
FEL-PRO TCS45920 Crankshaft Front Seal Set $5.10
FEL-PRO TCS45641 Camshaft Front Seal $3.66
NATIONAL 221820 Polyacrylate Oil Pump Shaft Seal $2.86
GATES TCK199 (1 Belt, 1 Tensioner, 1 Idler) Timing Belt Component Kit
$52.89
STANT 48278 180° w/Jiggle Pin OE Type Thermostat $10.94
AISIN (OEM) WPT010A Water pump w/o housing $30.79
FEL-PRO VS50304R1 Valve Cover Gasket Set w/Spark plug tube seals
$18.26
Subtotal $143.74
Shipping about $20

Never said grossly but they do get a discount.
No oil pump?

[fenixus]

look on ebay for kits like that:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CAMRY...item2c5d7ec6e3

whatever more you want then you would have to buy it separately from online Toyota dealers (e.g. TOYOPARTSMAN TN member from Newnan, Georgia) or find another kit like the Aisin timing kit on rockauto.com

mind which parts they include as not all are same and stay away from parts with no brand names listed. if you have any questions just post a link, we all know most of good aftermarket vendor who are/were the OEM suppliers to Toyota at same time.

[JohnGD]

There is also AirCabinman on eBay who sells an "OEM" kit. Some members have used it.

The main problem with the leak around the oil pump is either the UFO o-ring aged or the pump shaft has a groove worn into it. But regular oil changes and a new pump shaft seal should less the chance of that happening. Same goes for the cam and crank seals.

The following is a thread on a worn pump shaft, IIRC around $30-40 at the dealer. Otherwise the pump is not replaced if nothing else is wrong with it.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh....php?p=3628556

[mail2_jb]

If you are using a dealer to do this job, expect to pay close to $1000, I was quotted $980 for a full TB change. I did it myself (of couse with a lot of reading and help from TN Gurus ), bought the kit from AirCabinman for $185. Worked out great, so i changed the TB on a second car too

[zb420]

Had a brief conversation with my mechanic... just re: prices.

he said $375 for the job.

he said it should be done about every 60K mi.

the more i think about it the luckier i think i have been and better get this done...

[frankjc]

That is a 60k mile belt. I would do a belt, seals and water pump. I'd go OE. The belt and seals are reasonably priced. I don't trust the aftermarket water pumps.

[zb420]

Originally Posted by frankjc

That is a 60k mile belt. I would do a belt, seals and water pump. I'd go OE. The belt and seals are reasonably priced. I don't trust the aftermarket water pumps.

I will discuss it with the mechanic.. he's doing an engine right now and will be done in 2 days.

I'll have him come and we'll have a talk and see...

...btw, thanks for all your input... I really do appreciate it. Now I know what to discuss with him.

Steve