Valve cover oil leak - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

NapalmFTW · 10-09-2011, 01:45 PM

Recently purchased a used (well used!) 1994 Camry LE with the I4 engine.

Aside from the rear sway bar bushings making the "knock" over bumps, everything seemed fine. Noticed a smell of burning oil one day after making a 20 mile trip in the car. Got home and the bottom of the car was covered in oil/sludge.

It also dripped a little after I had stopped. I took the valve cover off and replaced the valve cover gasket and resealed the semi circular plugs.

All seemed well (although the engine seemed noiser than usual...?) but I've noticed another smaller leak from the passenger side of the valve cover (I hope). Do I take off the valve cover again and re-do the gasket and RTV? I'm finding it hard to pin down the location of this leak due to the timing belt cover. I also replaced the PCV valve and grommet but I notice clean engine oil leaking from this too (d'oh).

Can I RTV the PCV valve grommet in place? Actually that said I'm not sure if its coming from the rubber hose leading off the PCV valve or not.

Aside from a rough idle (dog bone mount is shot) and the fact lights dim a LOT when using accessories (fan, AC, brakes... erm.. brakes aren't accessories but you know what I mean) the car seems alright.

Any thoughts then?

TL;DR:
Replaced valve cover gasket and semi-circular plug RTV because of big oil leak. Big oil leak fixed, now have a little leak from passenger side of valve cover/engine.

David.

WaxonWaxStillOn · 10-09-2011, 06:18 PM

You shouldn't need rtv on the pcv grommet if it's installed correctly (in all the way, valve cover area cleaned up beforehand etc.) but the hose on the pcv valve can be a common leak because they get pretty hard after a while and crack easily. Since you replaced the pcv valve, it's not likely it's clogged.

Leaking from the passenger side is common because of the seals around the timing belt area. You did the valve cover and half moons, so the other leaks on the passenger side can come from the oil cooler in the front of the engine, under where the oil filter screws on. There are a couple of o-rings iirc.

And the timing belt area includs the seal behind the camshaft pulley, the crankshaft main front seal, and the large oil pump o-ring (most common/potentially profuse leakable seal...becomes brittle and ineffective over time), and oil pump seal, which goes over the oil pump drive rotor shaft.

Of course there is the oil pan gasket as well which can leak, altho its often hard to tell if it's leaking because leaks in the timing belt area usually drip off the right rear corner of the oil pan.

There is also power steering hoses on that side, but that oil, if not too dirty (altho probably is), will have a reddish tint to it.

One other oil other seal, but closer to the driver side on the other side of the head, is an o-ring on the distributor shaft, which can leak quite a bit when it becomes brittle and ineffective.

It's not a bad thing to try and degrease the engine by spraying some inexpensive engine cleaning foam to help source some of these leaks if needed. There is a DIY for that too.

***fenixus*** · 10-09-2011, 06:29 PM

lubricate the new PCV grommet inside and out for easier installation if it's causing trouble.

same about removing the old brittle grommet, pry it a little bit and spray some deep creep sea foam in between, it will slide out, maybe even in one piece.

NapalmFTW · 10-09-2011, 07:07 PM

Thanks guys - already replaced the PCV grommet and valve. Didn't replace the hose but I got some from Autosomething (one of the parts stores). There's oil on the plastic tube leading from the PCV valve to the hose, but not enough to account for the drops on the driveway.

I hope its not a timing belt/cover issue and that its a case of not putting the RTV in the right place when I did the valve cover.

I don't have one of the nice "set the torque and wait until the click" wrenches, but a cheap $20 "watch the needle" torque wrench, but all of the valve cover nuts are torqued to 17ftlbs or more (probably maximum torque was 20 or so).

Am I safe just spraying degreaser on the non-electrical items and hosing it down? I don't want to get the distributor wet or anything.

***JohnGD*** · 10-09-2011, 07:43 PM

You can borrow the click style torque wrenches from Autozone's free loaner program. Not sure how beat up some of those are however. Or buy them for about $15 each on sale at Harbor Freight (1/4, 3/8 and 1/2"-drives in the latest member ads). All 3 for under $50!

There are 3 semi circular plugs to cover the cylinder head cutouts used for machining the cam journals at the factory. These should all be removed and resealed with RTV, after cleaning the old RTV off and wiping the surfaces with alcohol (oil messes with RTV sealing). And then the base of the cam sprocket cap and semi circular plug seams need to get dabs of RTV as well.

That said, the cam, crank and oil pump shaft seals should all be replaced while doing the timing job (so you don't have to go in again later).

NapalmFTW · 10-09-2011, 07:46 PM

THREE semi-circular plugs? Two at either side of the engine, driver and passenger side... Where's the third?

I'll drive to Harbor Freight tomorrow and get one of the click wrenches. The 30mm socket I have is a 1/2 inch and I had to buy a bloody adaptor from sears or autozone ( I can't remember which ). My local AZ is a load of crap - the guy there said it would cost me $100 to rent the torque wrench and just to bring it back. I looked at his screen at it clearly said retail price - unless I was reading it wrong.

Either way I didn't have $100 to drop on a loaner wrench.

WaxonWaxStillOn · 10-09-2011, 08:44 PM

Yeah, iirc, I've only got 2 as well. John might be referring to a later engine (/edit: or later version of this engine) that has a 3rd plug in place of where the distributor is on our engine head, which can leak as lot as well.

Autozone's 'loaner program' is actually a purchase program, with return for full refund within 90 days.

NapalmFTW · 10-09-2011, 08:46 PM

Ah ok, I just wanted to be sure - I've been reading and re-reading this section of TN and all the FAQs and DIYs for about 2 weeks since I got the car and hoped I'd got most of the info down pat by now LOL.

Appreciate the help so far. I am going to take a run to Walmart tomorrow ot pick up some oil and a filter so I'll see if she leaks again.

WaxonWaxStillOn · 10-09-2011, 09:05 PM

You've definitely started in the right place, research can be exhausting but those DIY's are awesome.

I'm guessing you will still have atleast some small leaks unless the previous owner(s) were meticulous with the car. The o-rings are fairly common leaks and from what I've read here, it seems will never last this long unless perhaps the car has ridiculously low miles.

It's recommended to change the trans fluid as well as the differential fluid if you don't know if they've been changed recently. Doesn't hurt to flush the power steering, coolant, and brake fluid as well. These are things that some owners just never get to but are important and can often make a fairly noticeable difference when driving. Seafoaming can be pretty effective too.

All of these things are fairly easy and inexpensive and pay dividends if you plan to own the car for a while. The only thing is if you do get into the timing belt area to address leaks, it's best to do a timing belt/water pump replacement job if it hasn't been done recently, and that will unavoidably cost you some money for all parts to do it right ($150-$250, depending iirc.)

That said, I was in your shoes earlier in the year and am a relative newbie with this car as well. In a short time, I've come to really love it after fixing all the leaks (including each of the ones I've mentioned) and getting it up to speed.

NapalmFTW · 10-09-2011, 09:13 PM

Thanks - the transmission fluid looks fairly clean (looks quite red) but something on my long list of things to do to the car.

Diff fluid looks hard to do, but I'm sure I'm capable assuming the nuts haven't rusted solid - Indiana is hard on a car in winter.

Power steering fluid looks clean too but it can't hurt to flush that either I guess. I topped up the radiator expansion container because it was below low when the car was cold. I filled it to "full" and its now down between low and full. I opened the radiator cap and the fluid basically spilled out. I wonder if its _too_ full? Car doesn't overheat though. Someone had disconnected the passenger side cooling fan though - I found the connector lying near the headlight so I reconnected it. Not sure why they did that, but we'll see.

Car seems generally alright, although it seems quite loud under the bonnet - uh, the hood (I'm a transplant, used to live in the UK) and since I replaced the PCV valve I can smell exahust for a few seconds after starting.

Lots of little jobs to fix...! sigh. LOL.

WaxonWaxStillOn · 10-09-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapalmFTW

Thanks - the transmission fluid looks fairly clean (looks quite red) but something on my long list of things to do to the car.

Diff fluid looks hard to do, but I'm sure I'm capable assuming the nuts haven't rusted solid - Indiana is hard on a car in winter.

Power steering fluid looks clean too but it can't hurt to flush that either I guess. I topped up the radiator expansion container because it was below low when the car was cold. I filled it to "full" and its now down between low and full. I opened the radiator cap and the fluid basically spilled out. I wonder if its _too_ full? Car doesn't overheat though. Someone had disconnected the passenger side cooling fan though - I found the connector lying near the headlight so I reconnected it. Not sure why they did that, but we'll see.

Car seems generally alright, although it seems quite loud under the bonnet - uh, the hood (I'm a transplant, used to live in the UK) and since I replaced the PCV valve I can smell exahust for a few seconds after starting.

Lots of little jobs to fix...! sigh. LOL.

The differential fluid is extremely easy theoretically, only 2 bolts...that is if you can get them out. That's the entire degree of difficulty if someone has any (other than maybe some degreasing needed), and that will vary for everyone. Indiana probably uses salt, so I'd guess that increases the chance of difficulty. Mine were very easy to get off, and I realized it had work done recently, but I found what appeared to be sand in my differential fluid (windy days here carry sand.) So I flushed it 2 times.

In my limited experience I don't know what exactly to check if you smell exhaust in the beginning (inside or outside the car?), other than to replace the tune up parts if needed (spark plugs, distr cap/rotor, fuel filter, sometimes wires) and clean the fuel system with seafoam (1/3 gas tank, 1/3 in oil fill hole, 1/3 thru brake assist(?) vacuum line...see DIY...very easy. Also products with PEA in them, such as these, like Red Line ($10) or Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus ($7 @walmart) work well. It could of course be burning a little oil from engine wear.

But if you are concerned about this and want more expert feedback about it and don't get it in this thread, maybe start another thread with a specific title about it.

NapalmFTW · 10-09-2011, 09:47 PM

Another problem I had when jacking the car up at the rear, the jack actually bent/broke the jacking point *roll eyes*. Is there another safe place to jack the car up?

Once I have cleared out the garage here and got the car on the flat (Driveway is a slope) I'll see if I can get the car on jack stands and get under and find the diff - need to do that to get to the oil anyway so.. no biggie.

The exhaust smell is under the hood and seems to be only for a few seconds... I think it has something to do with the oil leaking from the PCV valve, as far as I can tell the PCV valve takes exhaust/oil vapour from the valve cover and back to the manifold...?

***JohnGD*** · 10-10-2011, 07:42 PM

hehe I was thinking of a 98, must be another browser tab window.

If jacking at the scissor jack pleat, use a slotted block of wood that fits over the pleat. Otherwise you can use the jack points (a raised round spot under the front and rear subframes) and put the jack stands under the scissor jack points. There are rubber protectors for the jack stands from Harbor Freight online (used to be available in stores but no longer).

NapalmFTW · 10-13-2011, 11:51 AM

Ok, managed to change my oil today (easy except I didn't have the filter wrench so had to redneck the filter outo f there).

Anyway - the oil leak seems to be coming from the bottom of the timing belt cover. I can see a gasket that looks pushed out/cracked from the cover. I can only assume I have a leak somewhere with the oil pump or so.

I take it this is an expensive job to take to a garage / shop and just a time consuming job to fix as a layman?

It's a pretty slow leak but a leak is a leak and I'd like to not kill this car through inattention.

ty**20 · 10-13-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapalmFTW

Ok, managed to change my oil today (easy except I didn't have the filter wrench so had to redneck the filter outo f there).

Anyway - the oil leak seems to be coming from the bottom of the timing belt cover. I can see a gasket that looks pushed out/cracked from the cover. I can only assume I have a leak somewhere with the oil pump or so.

I take it this is an expensive job to take to a garage / shop and just a time consuming job to fix as a layman?

It's a pretty slow leak but a leak is a leak and I'd like to not kill this car through inattention.

it is not an expensive job. its a pretty simple weekend DIY job, but requires removal of timing belt, which is a easy on the 4cyl. probably the oil pump gasket is busted. here is a video how to change the oil pump gasket on toyota camry 4cyl.

You Tube