Supercharged V6 on the cheap

[White Stripe]

I want to supercharge my 92 v6 camry maybe someday. I want to do it as cheaply as possible. Besides the price of the supercharger-how else can I save money? I figure i will need injectors and a better fuel pump. Can I getaway with not using a piggyback system and just adjust the maf to a much richer adjustment and call it good? What recomendations do you have on cutting costs?

[Bdub215]

Originally Posted by White Stripe

I want to supercharge my 92 v6 camry maybe someday. I want to do it as cheaply as possible. Besides the price of the supercharger-how else can I save money? I figure i will need injectors and a better fuel pump. Can I getaway with not using a piggyback system and just adjust the maf to a much richer adjustment and call it good? What recomendations do you have on cutting costs?

Read EEngineer's previous Build thread, figure what you can eliminate/replace for cheaper (although i wouldnt recommend it) and go from there. /Thread

[White Stripe]

I didn't see a lot of technical info-he just mentions the he used supra injectors and a piggyback. I would like to try doing it without the piggyback if its possible. Is it?

[Luckynumber5]

Not gonna happen cheap. You need serious fabrication skills and if you had them you wouldnt be asking here. No offence intended but this is a pipe dream, go buy a Grand Prix GTP if you want a cheap car to mod and make some nice power.

[Silent Runner]

I'm curious Lucky, the PnP and y-pipe, seem to be the best and brightest of na mods that we can do to these engines, what type of real world results did you get from these? However you want to describe it.. way more poop, better mid and high, less torque, but made up for it etc. What did your real and internal stop-watch tell you, these are not cheap or easy mods to make.

I have alot of technical capability, but the question of making some economical, boost has also also been driving me for along time. Stay tuned over the next 2 months, I am assembling an all-out attempt at limited E-charging. Its going to involve a system of limited time, low boost (2-3psi) electrically driven (100amp draw motor), driven stuff, no wispy little 12v fans in the intake. I will either end up with 250lbs of torque off the line. or a great way to run my power tools on the road. I'm prepared for the ridicule, I just have to know for myself if this is possible.

Budget: $500

[Bdub215]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber5

Not gonna happen cheap. You need serious fabrication skills and if you had them you wouldnt be asking here. No offence intended but this is a pipe dream, go buy a Grand Prix GTP if you want a cheap car to mod and make some nice power.

You cant beat that 3800 Series II supercharged in the bang for the buck department.

Originally Posted by Silent Runner

I'm curious Lucky, the PnP and y-pipe, seem to be the best and brightest of na mods that we can do to these engines, what type of real world results did you get from these? However you want to describe it.. way more poop, better mid and high, less torque, but made up for it etc. What did your real and internal stop-watch tell you, these are not cheap or easy mods to make.

I'm curious as well.

[White Stripe]

Well Im not sure how the toyota obd1 system works with boost. Can u adjust the maf meter to compensate for the extra air if you install a bigger fuel pump and injectors? I know people that can fabricate stuff im not worried about that.

[Eye8Pussies]

the down-side of the obd I is that the ecu itself will have a very difficult time adjusting for the injectors/fuel pump or the boost

BUT the upside of the obd I is that it uses a MAP sensor as well as a distributor ignition system....which means that a few correct adjustments in the sensors themselves, and you can trick the ecu into adding fuel / pulling fuel, or adding timing / pulling timing

[Luckynumber5]

The 3vz doesnt have a map sensor though, its that silly flap style air flow meter. Tuning isnt the biggest issue with supercharging a 3vz-fe. There is no place for a large blower to sit unless you are able to fabricate an intake manifold setup like Gabe has, and that is a TON of work. Then you get to deal with tuning, at low boost if you retard the timing a bit you may be able to get away without doing anything other than a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. BUt note i said MAY be able to.



As for my mods, the car is totally different. The power isn't amazing, but it drives like a Japanese sport sedan now instead of a detuned slug like it did from the factory. Hmm guess I should update my mods list since I just got her running again tonight after a very lengthy 5 speed swap.

I have been in so many fast cars I am pretty critical of how a car runs, and the Camry is very smooth, I like it. But it isn't a fast car, just quick. I would say it would run with a stock L67 Grand Prix, but as soon as that Grand Prix gets a $150 down pipe and a $100 smaller pulley it will be no contest.

[Silent Runner]

I'm curious about the tuning aspect of boosting a 3VZ-FE. How much lee-way do the injectors provide for increased power output while maintaining correct A/F ratios.? In my E-charging project, I'm looking at an air pump that will push 350cfm, and definitely will pressurize below that. my calculations (not in front of me now), indicate that a 3L, engine will flow about that, just over 6000rpm. The idea of my E-Charger is to provide boost at lower rpm, bump up the power curve early, then let n/a, take over in the higher rpm. The thought is that over-all performance is also described by how quickly a power/torque curve ramps-up, and how long it maintains it, not just how high it peaks at. Hopefully the MAF/sensor would read much higher air flow early in the rpm range and compensate, along with the oxygen sensors, and richen the mixture. (much as it might do with changes in altitude) The intended result is not necessarly to increase the engines output much beyond stock, but to improve its low-end response, and fatten up its horsepower and torque curve so that it makes stock level power for much longer in a modest rpm range on short term demand. Will this work in theory? Or would I run into other tuning issues?

Edit: Sorry White Stripe, if this appears to hyjack your thread, I'm just hoping that you can get some info along with my little side quiry. Seems to me that the only way to really do supercharging for a 3VZ-FE, is to modify a TRD supercharger intended for the 1MZ-FE, then upgrade the injectors and MAF with Supra Turbo hardware of the period, then a piggyback system, to make the ECU work with them.

[Luckynumber5]

Too many variables, just slap a wideband on there and gradually turn the airflow up while watching the air/fuel ratio I have seen an electric supercharger in a magazine, they arent common but they are out there.

[White Stripe]

Thats ok, but I have serious doubts about the e-charger dude. From the info Ive read its not gonna do much. But try it if you want. I would put it in front of the afm though and try it that way first. I would imagine the stock injectors would keep up cuz I doubt youll get 250 from your mod. U may want to keep an eye on your fuel b4 u get crazy on the street with it.

What if I put on a centrifigal side mounted supercharger that boosted b4 the afm so that the afm detected the high concentration of air even during open loop? I know I would need a bigger fuel pump and injectors. But it seems that the stock computer would still just try to keep the 41psi in the fuel rails. What the computer wouldn't know is that I have replaced the pump with a bigger one. The stock pump would not be able to keep up with the bigger injectors and maintain 41psi, but the bigger one could. Won't the computer just increase injector duration to keep up with the afm door flapper info? I know everyone thinks I should just run a piggyback, but Im trying to understand the system cuz Ive read undetailed info that it would work.

[Silent Runner]

Let the forum correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard something about using Supra n/a green injectors? (I assume this refers to there appearance). Now a Supra sourced fuel pump will definitely increase your fuel delivery capability. (Put one on my Mazda 626 Turbo to take it up to 16psi.). My E charger concept is absolutely going to blow through the MAF, as well.

Interesting test: my E-charger, just blew off a firm connection with a 12A vacuum cleaner hard enough to put a big welt and smack mark on my arm. Simple real world test: will it pressurize against a significant draw of air? Yup, at least enough to blow off typical home vacuum hose fixtures with considerable force.

[Eye8Pussies]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber5

The 3vz doesnt have a map sensor though, its that silly flap style air flow meter. Tuning isnt the biggest issue with supercharging a 3vz-fe. There is no place for a large blower to sit unless you are able to fabricate an intake manifold setup like Gabe has, and that is a TON of work. Then you get to deal with tuning, at low boost if you retard the timing a bit you may be able to get away without doing anything other than a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. BUt note i said MAY be able to.

whoops my bad


and with a bigger fuel pump and a rising FPR with boost, the stock injectors up to about 250whp whp - mine maxed out at 255whp. and if you do go the electric route (if you can make it work), it is extremely doubtful you'll be able to take a 150whp car to 250whp

[Luckynumber5]

Originally Posted by White Stripe

Thats ok, but I have serious doubts about the e-charger dude. From the info Ive read its not gonna do much. But try it if you want. I would put it in front of the afm though and try it that way first. I would imagine the stock injectors would keep up cuz I doubt youll get 250 from your mod. U may want to keep an eye on your fuel b4 u get crazy on the street with it.

What if I put on a centrifigal side mounted supercharger that boosted b4 the afm so that the afm detected the high concentration of air even during open loop? I know I would need a bigger fuel pump and injectors. But it seems that the stock computer would still just try to keep the 41psi in the fuel rails. What the computer wouldn't know is that I have replaced the pump with a bigger one. The stock pump would not be able to keep up with the bigger injectors and maintain 41psi, but the bigger one could. Won't the computer just increase injector duration to keep up with the afm door flapper info? I know everyone thinks I should just run a piggyback, but Im trying to understand the system cuz Ive read undetailed info that it would work.

The computer doesn't monitor fuel pressure, it assumes. You will be fighting against fuel trims in closed loop and an inability to tune in detail in open loop. Without a stand alone ems or a good piggyback you cannot adjust the fuel and timing enough to really get some power out of forced induction. There is just barely enough adjustment in the distributor and air flow meter to tune some decent power out of a near factory engine.