Rebuilding Front Suspension. To do or not to do.

[Yuko]

So I went and research on TN and Google about this little problem I been having. Seem like I have pin point the problem but not quite.

A quick summary: I was getting a knocking noise on the front-passenger side suspension; very similar to a bad sway bar end link. (Like a plastic mallet in the wheel-well) Not only that, it would pop at full lock like a CV joint but only occur when I first move the car after it have been parked for more than a few hours. So, a few days ago, I lift my Camry up in the air to inspect it. All mounting bolts/nuts torque to spec., strut shaft nuts torque, all bushing are good, lower ball joints, end links, tie rods, and CVs are good. The problem I found was that the front-driver side strut mount creeks when turning the wheel but I can't be certain about the knocking noise on the right. I think the noise is from the strut mount too. Either way, both front struts squeak on the re-bounce stroke/travel.

So I conclude that I needed new struts and strut mounts. A quick search showed that it's cheaper to get the Econo-Matic quick struts than the mounts and struts separately. (But another current thread suggests that the Econo-matic might not be so good). I would love KYBs but not in my budget.

Here's what is puzzling: For the past 3 days, I drove with my Camry without the passenger sway bar endlink and the knocking is gone, almost. It is very hard for me to reproduce the noise but once in a while it'll knock. I theory is without the tension of the sway bar, it's not pulling/pushing the strut hard enough to make the noise. What do you think?

I still what the Econo-Matic Quick-Struts because PepBoys is offering 20% off and it has lifetime warranty. Which brings it to $115 each? (I know, cheaper online) I’m planning to install it this Friday, unless you can steer me away from these.

As for the sway bars, the bushing “looks” good but I might replace them as well. I read the Moog’s thermoplastic are good but may squeak. Any suggestions? I just want to restore the suspension.

Thanks in advance.

[mazdaverx7]

can you reproduce the knocking by moving the sway bar up and down with the end link disconnected? you can replace the sway bar bushings with polyurethane bushings and get excellent performance and longevity out of them. the bushings should come with a special grease designed to eliminate bushing squeak. i use a lot of energy suspension components on RX-7 restorations that i do and i've never had an issue with squeaking when using their supplied grease.

as far as the knocking is concerned, i would look into replacing the struts and mounts. the mount has an internal bearing plate and its very difficult to reproduce the clunking when diagnosing the issue in the garage. the quick struts aren't terrible and a good economical replacement. expect to get around five years use out of them.

[fenixus]

you do not totally cheap out on suspension, because you will get more problems than you started with.

real quickstruts are only a few bucks more than those economatics, check advance auto parts online and their discount codes (google them). slim chance you can find them in stock though, usually have to order online anyways.

another thing. why not replace the strut mounts only if struts themselves and rest of parts are good?

I will be honest. I have monroe quickstruts (not economatics) in front of both cars and I have a thing to say about them. in short, I liked Gabriel Struts way more than Monroes, but for the price difference I like what I've got.
also the Monroe Strut mount bearings I received, well, I could have greased them, but then the purpose of easy install would be defeated since I would be taking them apart anyways LOL

I can hear bearings turning if I roll the windows down when cornering. even more I hear them on wife's car (barely driven, only 1k miles with new quick struts), way less on my V6 (around 6k miles with them), so maybe it goes away with time/miles, I dunno.

Never tried KYB struts so cannot say, but I prefer Gabriel struts over Monroe Sensatracs even though they are OK and smooth after a few thousand miles, but I have a feeling like the bounce up/down a tad too much to my taste when accelerating and slowing down hard and yet they feel a tad too stiff when driving over pot holes or uneven bumps. kinda weird if you ask me.

[pmesfun]

^fen beat me to the Quick Strut topic.

If you hear the noise at the top near the hood, it's the strut mounts. I would replace the sway bar links with Deezas for starters, $~20 each from Rock Auto. Also, like Madzaverx7 said I would get energy suspension bushings, I installed them a year or two ago and no squeaks. I think the Sensa-trac Quick-Struts are the better ones. Did you check the inner tie rods? They could be clunking too.

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by fenixus

I will be honest. I have monroe quickstruts (not economatics) in front of both cars and I have a thing to say about them. in short, I liked Gabriel Struts way more than Monroes, but for the price difference I like what I've got.
also the Monroe Strut mount bearings I received, well, I could have greased them, but then the purpose of easy install would be defeated since I would be taking them apart anyways LOL

I can hear bearings turning if I roll the windows down when cornering. even more I hear them on wife's car (barely driven, only 1k miles with new quick struts), way less on my V6 (around 6k miles with them), so maybe it goes away with time/miles, I dunno.

Never tried KYB struts so cannot say, but I prefer Gabriel struts over Monroe Sensatracs even though they are OK and smooth after a few thousand miles, but I have a feeling like the bounce up/down a tad too much to my taste when accelerating and slowing down hard and yet they feel a tad too stiff when driving over pot holes or uneven bumps. kinda weird if you ask me.

I think you have to drive your Solaras some more. I drove my aunt's Solara this past week to check it out and the ride is really soft, you don't really feel any bumps on the road. Probably a little to soft for my liking but its nice. Pretty sure she has quick struts and not just Monroe struts.

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by fenixus

another thing. why not replace the strut mounts only if struts themselves and rest of parts are good?

True, I think rear struts go bad much earlier than front struts. So maybe just getting new mounts could be an option. Compressing struts is not really bad at all, THIRD time around it only took me 4 hours from start to finish to do all 4.

[fenixus]

yup, I agree, especially with wife's car which was barely driven.
what got me surprised however, was a loose center nut (36ft-lbs was 1/2 turn further) on driver side quick strut in her car... kinda scary if you ask me ... they are quiet however, no problems with clunking or such, just the sound of bearings getting turned is a little annoying so far, but as you said, perhaps it needs more miles to break in.

Quick Struts are not bad after 5k miles on front of V6, but ... I guess I was expecting a bit more from them after all you get what you paid for hehe

they are not bad though, very quiet actually on this car, nowadays can barely hear the strut bearings ... unless I keep the stereo off and roll the windows down and drive very slowly holding my breath ... I guess I'm anal about noises hehe...

another thing is that I may have again over-inflated the tires a bit (35psi at cold tire) before snow hit us, so perhaps this explains more why I feel the car being too hard over pot holes and bumps now

Originally Posted by pmesfun

I think you have to drive your Solaras some more. I drove my aunt's Solara this past week to check it out and the ride is really soft, you don't really feel any bumps on the road. Probably a little to soft for my liking but its nice. Pretty sure she has quick struts and not just Monroe struts.

[Yuko]

Originally Posted by mazdaverx7

can you reproduce the knocking by moving the sway bar up and down with the end link disconnected?

I couldn't reproduce the noise. With both end links disconnected, the sway bar had no play but was easy to turn up and down with some resistance. In the shop we tried to push/pull and pry on everything on the suspension but it all still looks solid. I'll look into those energy suspension bushing. The red one are nice.

Originally Posted by fenixus

you do not totally cheap out on suspension, because you will get more problems than you started with.

another thing. why not replace the strut mounts only if struts themselves and rest of parts are good?

Everything up front is original so all the pot holes, rough roads, and my harsh driving have worn the struts itself too. It squeaks when it travels but no leaks yet. I check on my notes from the shop and through NAPA, the real Quick-Strut are $158 each with life-time warranty. Quick-Strut and the Econo-matic from Pepboys are $50 different each and my thought was to use the $100 to replace my power seat track. (It snap back and forward but that's a different topic) If there's a good different in quality, I'll spent the extra for the Quick-Strut.

The rear suspension are prefect.

Originally Posted by pmesfun

^fen beat me to the Quick Strut topic.

If you hear the noise at the top near the hood, it's the strut mounts. I would replace the sway bar links with Deezas for starters, $~20 each from Rock Auto. Also, like Madzaverx7 said I would get energy suspension bushings, I installed them a year or two ago and no squeaks. I think the Sensa-trac Quick-Struts are the better ones. Did you check the inner tie rods? They could be clunking too.

I check the inner and out tie rods and they are fine. The sway bar links checked out fine too but I could replace them. I still want to save money for the power seat track and front rotors (wrapped) but buying the Econo-matic might come back to bite me.

At least we concluded that the noise my be from the strut mounts.

[fenixus]

$158 for quick strut locally sounds very good actually, if you want local pickup and no hassle replacement if needed (hopefully not).

I've got mine off rockauto when they were like $100/ea front for 2.2L and $125/ea front for 3.0L - they jacked the prices up however since then.

yeah, I would stay away from economatic quick struts (econo-Struts I think they are named), all parts are same as in quick strut (sensatrac quick strut) except fdor the strut itself - which as you said would come back and bite you in the ass after some time (bouncy bouncy ride as I read).

however if you are willing to get some better struts, I would really consider Gabriel brand, I liked them very much, however Gabriel ReadyMounts are like $250/ea ...

if you aim in the middle (not bad ride comfort and optimal price) then go with Quick Struts ... if you are lucky you might even get the new breed with OE Spectrum struts instead of Sensatracs

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by fenixus

yup, I agree, especially with wife's car which was barely driven.
what got me surprised however, was a loose center nut (36ft-lbs was 1/2 turn further) on driver side quick strut in her car... kinda scary if you ask me ... they are quiet however, no problems with clunking or such, just the sound of bearings getting turned is a little annoying so far, but as you said, perhaps it needs more miles to break in.

Quick Struts are not bad after 5k miles on front of V6, but ... I guess I was expecting a bit more from them after all you get what you paid for hehe

they are not bad though, very quiet actually on this car, nowadays can barely hear the strut bearings ... unless I keep the stereo off and roll the windows down and drive very slowly holding my breath ... I guess I'm anal about noises hehe...

another thing is that I may have again over-inflated the tires a bit (35psi at cold tire) before snow hit us, so perhaps this explains more why I feel the car being too hard over pot holes and bumps now

I was kinda disappointed when I took apart the struts, the monroe strut bearings just came apart, all the balls fell out, but it was no big deal. I packed them with a lot of grease, and they are still silent.

Originally Posted by Yuko

I couldn't reproduce the noise. With both end links disconnected, the sway bar had no play but was easy to turn up and down with some resistance. In the shop we tried to push/pull and pry on everything on the suspension but it all still looks solid. I'll look into those energy suspension bushing. The red one are nice.
Everything up front is original so all the pot holes, rough roads, and my harsh driving have worn the struts itself too. It squeaks when it travels but no leaks yet. I check on my notes from the shop and through NAPA, the real Quick-Strut are $158 each with life-time warranty. Quick-Strut and the Econo-matic from Pepboys are $50 different each and my thought was to use the $100 to replace my power seat track. (It snap back and forward but that's a different topic) If there's a good different in quality, I'll spent the extra for the Quick-Strut.

The rear suspension are prefect.
I check the inner and out tie rods and they are fine. The sway bar links checked out fine too but I could replace them. I still want to save money for the power seat track and front rotors (wrapped) but buying the Econo-matic might come back to bite me.

At least we concluded that the noise my be from the strut mounts.

Yeah, replace the strut assemblies, then if needed you can do the links.

[Yuko]

Originally Posted by fenixus

$158 for quick strut locally sounds very good actually, if you want local pickup and no hassle replacement if needed (hopefully not).

I've got mine off rockauto when they were like $100/ea front for 2.2L and $125/ea front for 3.0L - they jacked the prices up however since then.

yeah, I would stay away from economatic quick struts (econo-Struts I think they are named), all parts are same as in quick strut (sensatrac quick strut) except fdor the strut itself - which as you said would come back and bite you in the ass after some time (bouncy bouncy ride as I read).

however if you are willing to get some better struts, I would really consider Gabriel brand, I liked them very much, however Gabriel ReadyMounts are like $250/ea ...

if you aim in the middle (not bad ride comfort and optimal price) then go with Quick Struts ... if you are lucky you might even get the new breed with OE Spectrum struts instead of Sensatracs

It would have been $139 each for the Gabriel Ready Mounts with the 20% discount I use to get working for Autozone. I didn't think I needed them 2 years ago. Damn.

The $100 saving with the Econo-Matic is still tempting but "you get what you paid for." I'll check online for some deals on strut. So far, I'll need both front complete struts and sway bar bushing. Anywhere from $230 to $342 depending on the struts.

[71Corolla]

Originally Posted by fenixus

Never tried KYB struts so cannot say, but I prefer Gabriel struts over Monroe Sensatracs even though they are OK and smooth after a few thousand miles, but I have a feeling like the bounce up/down a tad too much to my taste when accelerating and slowing down hard and yet they feel a tad too stiff when driving over pot holes or uneven bumps. kinda weird if you ask me.

I have the same experience with my Monroe's. They are soft, but let too much road shock into the cabin. I put KYB's on my previous '93, I initially pretty much hated them, harsh as all heck. But since then they have mellowed (I still maintain the car for the person I sold it to) and I like them better. They are not quite as soft, but they ride nice and make the car handle better. I also think the KYB's are really high quality, just the impression I got from them.

I wish I could get struts like in my '87, there is alien technology in those things, they ride incredibly smooth and handle reasonable. My '87 has a better ride than my Lexus, obviously not near as quiet, but the Camry outright ignores bumps any other car I've been in lets through. There is a stretch of road I drive everyday over railroad tracks, almost every car slows down in that section, doesn't matter what car or how old. I can go over that mess with the '87 and hardly feel it. Blows my mind. They also never wear out.

[pmesfun]

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

I have the same experience with my Monroe's. They are soft, but let too much road shock into the cabin. I put KYB's on my previous '93, I initially pretty much hated them, harsh as all heck. But since then they have mellowed (I still maintain the car for the person I sold it to) and I like them better. They are not quite as soft, but they ride nice and make the car handle better. I also think the KYB's are really high quality, just the impression I got from them.

I wish I could get struts like in my '87, there is alien technology in those things, they ride incredibly smooth and handle reasonable. My '87 has a better ride than my Lexus, obviously not near as quiet, but the Camry outright ignores bumps any other car I've been in lets through. There is a stretch of road I drive everyday over railroad tracks, almost every car slows down in that section, doesn't matter what car or how old. I can go over that mess with the '87 and hardly feel it. Blows my mind. They also never wear out.

I can say the same thing about KYBs too, road shock does transmit much more than original struts. Other than that they're great. I have some sound deadening I will do to isolate the noise.

Your 87 reminds of my friend's dad's 01 GS I was riding in yesterday, you feel absolutely nothing, but at the same time the car handles really well. Same thing with my friend's old 00 GS with 200k miles on original suspension, still rode just as well, no rattles, no squeaks. Amazing engineering.

[fenixus]

$139 for Gabriel ReadyMount??? man! that's a steal! wow! If ony I could find such price on them back then when I was in the market I would take them instead of Monroe's (again, nothing really wrong with them, I just prefer Gabriel's)

so what was the regular price on them at your store? $167? at my local autozone they were like $250 ...

Originally Posted by Yuko

It would have been $139 each for the Gabriel Ready Mounts with the 20% discount I use to get working for Autozone. I didn't think I needed them 2 years ago. Damn.

[fenixus]

yeah, so it must be more or less true if both of us observed the same things
still the price was good, so it's not too bad for me hehe.

hey, I think those Alien struts you have in '87 were Bilsteins installed from factory until gen3. gen4 was coming with some rebranded KYB I think. too bad Bilstein doesn't even make struts for gen4 ... that would be an awesome alternative

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

I have the same experience with my Monroe's. They are soft, but let too much road shock into the cabin. I put KYB's on my previous '93, I initially pretty much hated them, harsh as all heck. But since then they have mellowed (I still maintain the car for the person I sold it to) and I like them better. They are not quite as soft, but they ride nice and make the car handle better. I also think the KYB's are really high quality, just the impression I got from them.

I wish I could get struts like in my '87, there is alien technology in those things, they ride incredibly smooth and handle reasonable. My '87 has a better ride than my Lexus, obviously not near as quiet, but the Camry outright ignores bumps any other car I've been in lets through. There is a stretch of road I drive everyday over railroad tracks, almost every car slows down in that section, doesn't matter what car or how old. I can go over that mess with the '87 and hardly feel it. Blows my mind. They also never wear out.