92 camry wagon fuel line issues

[toyotasrust]

I am replacing my fuel line in my camry. A few months ago I hit a stump which punctured my brake and fuel lines. I was in the middle of nowhere so a mechanic fixed it for me using some sort of flexible line mated to what was left of the fuel line with a wedding ring connector. This was made from a Napa Balcamp/Dorman fuel line kit that retails for around $150; I am on a budget and don't want to spend that much. Some months later I noticed all of my lines were extremely rusted and needed to be replaced, along with the fuel filler neck and the rear cross-member. The brake lines are no problem because the flare nuts have SAE holes for SAE sized line and metric threads on them; the perfect adapters. The fuel line however is 8mm OD I believe and doesn't mate up with anything SAE. Moreover nobody seems to carry anything metric that will fit it in my area. Furthermore, I managed to damage the flexible fuel line during removal and now I can't use it anymore. Bored to tears yet? Wait, there's more. I have ordered a fuel line from Toyota (one piece pre-molded) which is fine but I believe I will have to take out the rack and pinion and the exhaust system to get it in, which I have no interest in doing. I could cut the line in a certain area to make the installation infinitely easier but I can't find flare nuts/unions or a wedding ring union that will fit this 8mm line. I could jimmy rig it with flexible high pressure fuel line IF I can get it to fit over the existing line. Any ideas on what would work without creating a fire hazard? Thanks for any help you can provide!

[ghettosled]

i bought the pre-bent lines from toyota for both the fuel and brake lines. i didnt remove the exhaust or steering. i dont think anything aside from the air filter box was removed (to access where the fuel line connects to the fuel filter).

[toyotasrust]

Perhaps it won't be as bad as I have envisioned. Thanks for telling me about your experience ghettosled.

[nogard]

Don't know about OEM line size, but on my 2nd gen I replaced all the lines front to rear. I had a brake line rust out, so as long as I was under the car I did all 5 lines, the brake and fuel lines. This was the hard lines from the fire wall to the gas tank flex lines and to the brake proportional valve.

I would have had to remove the fuel tank to get the brake lines in the factory spot, but ran them around the edge of the tank.

The flare nuts that they sold at all the automotive stores are made for US size hard line: 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", and the nuts are metric thread. So in this case adapting and finding parts was straight forward.

If you do end up flaring the lines make sure you invest in a half way decent double flare tool, and bender. You have to double flare or you will have a leak on the fuel line. I bought long lengths of hard line, like 15' and bent and flared what I needed. You can get premade lengths of line and cut it in half then you have a factory double flare on one end and only need to do one yourself on the other end. With one end cut off you can also take the US thread flare nuts off and put the proper size metric ones on. I've even seen adapters that have a male metric thread and on the back the have a female US thread so any premade line with US nuts will thread in. Be patient with the project and it will all work out, know when to walk away and come back to it later, test all your work before drop the car to the ground and drive it.

For me, this was a 4 day project, two late nights durning the week after work and most of the weekend. I would say one of the most enduring, worst projects I ever took on. I think most people would have hired someone to do it, or junked the car. I'm glad I chose to keep it and do it myself.

[toyotasrust]

So I guess the question is can 5/16" flare nuts with metric threads accept a double flare from an 8mm line. That is the $64 dollar question I can't get an answer for. I finally went to the dealer and ordered a pre-molded line, waited 4 days and of course, it was the wrong one. So I went to another toyota dealer who came up with a completely different part number for the exact same VIN. I'll know tomorrow if it is the right one. Overall I have found this car to be very difficult to work on. Nothing is straightforward. Some parts that I have ordered from reputable dealers and auto parts stores either don't fit or aren't offered anymore. Everything requires that you remove three other items to get to the part in question. I guess european cars are worse so I suppose that I am blessed.

[toyotasrust]

For anyone that wants to know, I have discovered something that two Toyota dealers in my area could not figure out, the fuel line comes in two pieces. Somebody wagged in a replacement line so this fact wasn't clear to me upon disassemble. One dealer said the part number was XXX and that is what I need. So I ordered it and when it arrived it clearly wouldn't work. Another dealer said the part number was YYY so I ordered that one and realized once I got it that the two pieces go together to form one line. One piece is molded 8mm steel fuel line with two male flare nuts on the ends. The other piece is flexible hose with two female flare nuts on the ends. Together with the gas tank/fuel pump on one end and the fuel filter on the other it finally makes sense, to the total of $188. I am writing this in hopes of helping someone else in a similar predicament as I was. Thanks for everyone's help!

[brokenjago]

I am having an issue with the steel fuel line in my car, after trying to replace the fuel filter and bending the shit out of it. (I also can't get the actual goddamn filter off. Mildly pissed at this point.)

How much was the steel part?

[fullofzen]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I am having an issue with the steel fuel line in my car, after trying to replace the fuel filter and bending the shit out of it. (I also can't get the actual goddamn filter off. Mildly pissed at this point.)

Jago -- you are scaring the hell out of me. I am picking up a filter from Toyota this evening and replacing sometime this weekend. I know we're going off topic, but can you tell me about your problems with getting the filter off? Did you try PBBlaster on that stubborn flare nut?

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by fullofzen

Jago -- you are scaring the hell out of me. I am picking up a filter from Toyota this evening and replacing sometime this weekend. I know we're going off topic, but can you tell me about your problems with getting the filter off? Did you try PBBlaster on that stubborn flare nut?

Well --

In the end, despite me trying with literally all of the strength in my body, multiple applications of WD-40, etc, I ripped it off. Just twisted it until the metal broke and ripped the thing out of there. I was not aware of PBBlaster nor did I use it.

Even after ripping it out, I was unable to remove the flare nut for a few reasons:

1) I had stripped the crap out of it.

2) It just. Wouldn't. Budge.

Honestly, #2 more than #1, because I could still get a good grip on the nut with my wrench.

Granted, I've only just bought this car, and so I had no idea when the last time they put a new fuel filter in was, but it was Toyota branded, so probably a long, long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the original one that came with the car, cause the gasoline that came out of that thing looked like muddy water.

Aaaaanyway. Some tips. Loosen your gas cap before you start to relieve fuel pressure. I forgot to do this and lost/inhaled probably a couple of quarts of gasoline for no reason. Still use a pan, however, since there will be gas (blood?)

Sorry if you know all this already. Maaaan would it have helped me if I'd known it beforehand, so I'm hoping it'll help.

On my 1996 Camry, the flare nut was 14mm, and the fuel filter grip points were 19mm. The fuel line is 8mm steel.

So back to me ripping this thing off. I ripped it off and just sorta sat there and fumed. What the hell was I supposed to do now? So I bussed it over to Autozone and bought a $12.99 Dorman 800-151 fuel line repair kit. Included was a 5/16" (7.9375mm) steel tube with appropriately flared end, the flare nut (which didn't fit, so I bought a 14mm flare nut which fit fine for $1) and a compression nut (looks kinda like this). I also bought a pipe cutter since I didn't have one, and some teflon tape.

Before you ask, yes, 7.9375 and 8mm are not the same, and yes, it does cause problems. After using the pipe cutter to cut off the screwed up end of the fuel line (dumping even more fuel onto the ground...) I realized that the compression nut was not going to fit on the stock fuel line, but just barely.

So I did what any insane DIYer with no experience would do: I ground the stock fuel line down with sandpaper until the nut fit. Then I put Teflon tape on the line, installed the compression nut, cut the pipe I bought to the correct length and bent it ~90 degrees to the correct angle and screwed that onto the other end of the compression nut. Then I installed the filter, making sure to use Teflon tape on the flare nut to prevent future seizing, connected everything back up and started the car.

Success! Sorta. I got the car to start, but a cursory inspection underneath to look at the compression nut revealed a steady drip-drip-drip. About one drip a second from the compression nut. Fair enough; in my frustration I neglected to put Teflon tape around the end leading to the filter, and that's where it's leaking from. I'm still very pleased with the job. I'll look at it tomorrow and if I don't feel like messing with it I'll take it to my mechanic to patch up.

[fullofzen]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Well --

In the end, despite me trying with literally all of the strength in my body, multiple applications of WD-40, etc, I ripped it off. Just twisted it until the metal broke and ripped the thing out of there. I was not aware of PBBlaster nor did I use it.

Even after ripping it out, I was unable to remove the flare nut for a few reasons:

1) I had stripped the crap out of it.

2) It just. Wouldn't. Budge.

Honestly, #2 more than #1, because I could still get a good grip on the nut with my wrench.

Granted, I've only just bought this car, and so I had no idea when the last time they put a new fuel filter in was, but it was Toyota branded, so probably a long, long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the original one that came with the car, cause the gasoline that came out of that thing looked like muddy water.

Aaaaanyway. Some tips. Loosen your gas cap before you start to relieve fuel pressure. I forgot to do this and lost/inhaled probably a couple of quarts of gasoline for no reason. Still use a pan, however, since there will be gas (blood?)

Sorry if you know all this already. Maaaan would it have helped me if I'd known it beforehand, so I'm hoping it'll help.

On my 1996 Camry, the flare nut was 14mm, and the fuel filter grip points were 19mm. The fuel line is 8mm steel.

So back to me ripping this thing off. I ripped it off and just sorta sat there and fumed. What the hell was I supposed to do now? So I bussed it over to Autozone and bought a $12.99 Dorman 800-151 fuel line repair kit. Included was a 5/16" (7.9375mm) steel tube with appropriately flared end, the flare nut (which didn't fit, so I bought a 14mm flare nut which fit fine for $1) and a compression nut (looks kinda like this). I also bought a pipe cutter since I didn't have one, and some teflon tape.

Before you ask, yes, 7.9375 and 8mm are not the same, and yes, it does cause problems. after using the pipe cutter to cut off the screwed up end of the fuel line (dumping even more fuel onto the ground...) I realized that the compression nut was not going to fit on the stock fuel line, but just barely.

So I did what any insane DIYer with no experience would do: I ground the stock fuel line down with sandpaper until the nut fit. Then I put Teflon tape on the line, installed the compression nut, cut the pipe I bought to the correct length and bent it ~90 degrees to the correct angle and screwed that onto the other end of the compression nut. Then I installed the filter, making sure to use Teflon tape on the flare nut to prevent future seizing, connected everything back up and started the car.

Success! Sorta. I got the car to start, but a cursory inspection underneath to look at the compression nut revealed a steady drip-drip-drip. About one drip a second from the compression nut. Fair enough; in my frustration I neglected to put Teflon tape around the end leading to the filter, and that's where it's leaking from. I'm still very pleased with the job. I'll look at it tomorrow and if I don't feel like messing with it I'll take it to my mechanic to patch up.

Good god, man. You're not taking no for an answer on this.

As for me -- I'm going to give it the old college try this weekend. The way I figure it -- to hell with it, right?

The bottom line is that I am -- frankly -- pretty weak. The potential that I'm going to twist the gas line seems low given my flabby arms. (Too much )

I'm going to spray some PB Blaster on it for the couple of days leading up to it and then use the "scissor" or "v" approach with a wrench bracing the filter while I go at the flare nut with a 14mm wrench. If I can't get the sucker to budge, I'll just take the filter and the car to ye olde auto shop and have them mess with it.

Worst case -- even if I do break the line, I'll just have ye olde tow truck tow the thing to the dump and be done with it. Me and this Toyota have had a good enough run.

This filter is the alamo. If I can't get this thing changed, there's no reason to keep the car.

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by fullofzen

Good god, man. You're not taking no for an answer on this.

As for me -- I'm going to give it the old college try this weekend. The way I figure it -- to hell with it, right?

The bottom line is that I am -- frankly -- pretty weak. The potential that I'm going to twist the gas line seems low given my flabby arms. (Too much )

I'm going to spray some PB Blaster on it for the couple of days leading up to it and then use the "scissor" or "v" approach with a wrench bracing the filter while I go at the flare nut with a 14mm wrench. If I can't get the sucker to budge, I'll just take the filter and the car to ye olde auto shop and have them mess with it.

Worst case -- even if I do break the line, I'll just have ye olde tow truck tow the thing to the dump and be done with it. Me and this Toyota have had a good enough run.

This filter is the alamo. If I can't get this thing changed, there's no reason to keep the car.

Don't get me started. I probably ending up putting well over 10 hours into the job - I would not be defeated! I tried the scissors method, the V method, the whatever-I-could-think-of method. Nut wouldn't budge.

I am not that strong. Not even close. That fuel like is made of cheap, crappy steel. Be careful! Just be sure to watch it carefully if it starts to turn, noting whether you're actually turning the nut/filter and not the line.

Good luck!

[fullofzen]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Don't get me started. I probably ending up putting well over 10 hours into the job - I would not be defeated!

I guess the funny thing about it is that repairpal quotes the cost here in San Diego at about $100 including parts for an average independent shop to do the fuel filter replacement on a Camry 4-cylinder. My perspective is that it's unlikely that any shop is going to be better at this than me or more careful at this than me -- I'm inclined to bet that they would end up kinking the line themselves.

Of course, they'd call me and say "Well, sir -- your fuel line was corroded pretty bad. We'll need you to pay to run a new fuel line."

So the way I figure it -- if the line kinks, I'm right back to having to replace the fuel line.

Either this thing is going to come off or it's not -- it doesn't matter who's twisting the wrenches.

The only difference between me and the shop is that I have a week to sit here and watch PB Blaster sink in every night.

[toyotasrust]

The cheapest quote I got on a Doorman repair kit was $150. Nobody had the small kit you referred to for whatever reason. Kudos to you regarding the sanding trick brokenjago!! I will have to remember that in the future. The line ended up being a two part affair that cost nearly $190 total. Ironically, about the only thing I didn't have trouble with was removing the line from the fuel filter. I put a new fuel filter on and replaced the entire fuel line from the tank to the filter. In addition, I replaced all the brake lines and most of the fuel return line and the vent line. To accomplish this I used 1/4" line I believe joined to the original lines via fuel injection flexible line hose and some fuel line clamps. Also I had no problems finding brake line with metric threads. Everything was coated in undercoater to slow the rusting down.

Now all I have to do is re-install the gas tank; replace the rear cross-member as mine rusted through; replace the fuel filler neck as mine rusted through; put new brakes and struts on; install new valve cover gaskets because mine are leaking; new spark plugs because I might as well since the fuel injection and intake plenum needs to be removed to fix the gaskets; oh and and a new speaker because one thumps loudly when you turn the radio on; and a new antennae mast because mine is bent and won't recede to it's hole when the radio is shut off.

I've driven mostly Chevy's and Toyota's in my life and I have never noticed either brand having a quality advantage over the other. They both break down about the same but the Toyota can be harder to work on, rusts faster and the parts can be expensive. The Chevy has annoying minor electrical gremlins and it is always anybody's guess as to what type of fasteners are on it, metric or SAE.

Thanks for everybody's help!!!