Car sounds very loud upon starting, but becomes normal later - 1997 2.2L

[Jawadali]

UPDATE #2: Took it to one shop, and it turns out the connection between the flex pipe and the second catalytic converter was cracked. See Post #13 for more details. Anyone have recommendations for exhaust brands? Walker, Bosal, CATCO, and Easter Catalytic are the ones that Rock Auto stocks, and I think I've seen a couple others (like AP) on eBay.

Hi Everyone,

My Camry has been doing well for a few months now. It is a 1997 model with the 2.2L 4-cyl engine, automatic transmission, and it has around 76,500 miles on it.

However, I noticed an issue that came up yesterday, and repeated itself again today.

Details are below. As always, any info is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Jawadali

Problem:

I will start the car, and about 10-30 seconds afterward (sometimes immediately), the car will sound very loud. The noise level will literally double or triple, and has a "hollow" sound to it. It sounds more like a muscle car or motorcycle than a Camry. It seems to be coming from the front. So far, this loudness will stop after a while.


UPDATE: Video Link - See post # 5 for details

Also, I haven't noticed any performance changes yet. The "types" of sounds are the same (i.e. putting it into Drive, accelerating, etc.), but they are just much louder and sound hollow.


Problem History:

This started yesterday morning, but the sound went back to normal after a few seconds. Today, it happened again (after a cold start), and went on for about 30-60 seconds before stopping. I then headed to a store, where I was for about 30 minutes before leaving. However, upon leaving the store, it happened a third time, almost immediately upon startup. I drove to two nearby stores to finish my errands, and the loudness was still there each time I started and stopped (about 10-15 minutes of driving/"engine on" time total).

Finally, when I was heading home, the sound seemed to return to normal after I had gotten onto the highway.

Car history:

I had my most recent oil change done at around 75,000 miles (beginning of September), and have had new tires, a new air filter, and new spark plugs installed in the past few months. The car was inspected by a mechanic towards the middle of July, shortly after I bought it (~72,000 miles), and there were no major issues at that time. I did have the coolant flushed as recommended, and also had the A/C system recharged at that time.

More car history info here.

I also seem to idle quite high upon a cold start (around 1400-1600 RPM in Park), and this drops to 1000-1200 RPM when initially put in Drive. However, when going back into park after driving for a while, the car will idle at around 800 RPM.

Other info:

From reading on here, this may be exhaust-related, but I don't recall running over any rough bumps/surfaces recently.

I have read a number of threads on here, and these two seemed somewhat related to my problem:

98 Camry Running Loud

Loud Noise under car when it rains


The night before this started, we had our first snowfall, and although I drove in the snow for about 20 minutes on my way back from work, my car is parked inside a garage. Nevertheless, I don't know if the colder temperature is a factor.

[sarsman45]

The idling is normal. Cold starts usually run up that high and go back down to ~750 when the engine is at optimal running temperature.

When does this sound happen and from what location? A "loud" noise could be anything. As the other thread states, the noise is coming from the engine in the back. Are you able to confirm this? Also, if it is an exhaust leak, you should have it checked ASAP since exhaust in cabin could kill you if it leaks in.

[Jawadali]

Originally Posted by sarsman45

The idling is normal. Cold starts usually run up that high and go back down to ~750 when the engine is at optimal running temperature.

When does this sound happen and from what location? A "loud" noise could be anything. As the other thread states, the noise is coming from the engine in the back. Are you able to confirm this? Also, if it is an exhaust leak, you should have it checked ASAP since exhaust in cabin could kill you if it leaks in.

Thanks for the quick reply.


The sound happens almost as soon as I turn the car on (sometimes it takes a few moments). I will see if it happens again tomorrow.

I would say the noise comes from the rear of the engine compartment of the car (i.e. closer to the cabin/interior). It does not seem to be coming from the rear.

Just to be clear, it's not a new noise that starts, its just that all of the regular sounds are amplified/"cranked up" and sound deeper/hollower. It sounds more like a muscle car or motorcycle than a Camry.

[BamZipPow]

Shoot some video and post it up. Could be an exhaust leak...

[Jawadali]

Here is a video link of the car idling in "Park" after a ~15 minute trip (mostly highway). This was taken in an underground parking garage.

Video Link

I apologize for the quality and audio "static". My phone is quite old, and there is no flash/LED, so it's pretty much just audio. Also, the sound here is quite muffled, but hopefully it at least gives you guys an idea.

The first half of the video was with me facing the driver's side door from about 2-3 feet away. The second half is when I moved to the front of the car and pointed the phone at the hood, from about 1-2 feet away. The hood was closed during recording.

[sarsman45]

Originally Posted by Jawadali

Here is a video link of the car idling in "Park" after a ~15 minute trip (mostly highway). This was taken in an underground parking garage.

Video Link

I apologize for the quality and audio "static". My phone is quite old, and there is no flash/LED, so it's pretty much just audio. Also, the sound here is quite muffled, but hopefully it at least gives you guys an idea.

The first half of the video was with me facing the driver's side door from about 2-3 feet away. The second half is when I moved to the front of the car and pointed the phone at the hood, from about 1-2 feet away. The hood was closed during recording.

Sounds like an exhaust leak (the pitter/patter of the noise points to it).... better to check under the hood to pinpoint location. Is there any smell coming into the cabin (exhaust, etc) or from opening the hood when the engine is on?


If it isn't, it could be something else that may require possible shop time or someone on the spot to diag.

[Jawadali]

Originally Posted by sarsman45

Sounds like an exhaust leak (the pitter/patter of the noise points to it).... better to check under the hood to pinpoint location. Is there any smell coming into the cabin (exhaust, etc) or from opening the hood when the engine is on?


If it isn't, it could be something else that may require possible shop time or someone on the spot to diag.

Thanks for the info.

How would I go about pinpointing it? Is this something that would be a small repair?

Aside from changing plugs, I haven't done much repair work. Also, since I just moved, I don't have any decent tools (nor the space) to tackle anything aside from the smallest of jobs, so if this does require repair, I will probably have to take it somewhere.

Any tips are appreciated.

Thanks!

[BMR]

I agree, sounds like an exhaust leak to me. I'd take it to an independently-owned exhaust repair shop and have them look at it, and provide an estimate. Chances are pretty good the flex pipe is leaking. That's a really common problem. If that's what it is, it should only cost $100 or so to cut out the old and weld in a new one; not usually a job for the DIY'er.

[watas]

Yes sounds like a leak those are perfectly normal idles. Make sure to check the exhaust manifold because usually it will make a ticking sound like that although if it was a leak it would be loud all the time. Could be something as simple as a gasket.

[Jawadali]

Thanks for the updates, guys.

The car is much louder than it normally is at idle, and I believe that ticking sound is often there at idle too (I have to listen to it again). Of course, it gets a LOT louder when accelerating.

Are there any recommended Flex pipe replacement parts/brands?

I know sometimes its (significantly) cheaper to buy the part on your own and give it to the shop, but for a part like this, I don't know if its worth the trouble.

[carsrus]

Originally Posted by Jawadali

Thanks for the updates, guys.

The car is much louder than it normally is at idle, and I believe that ticking sound is often there at idle too (I have to listen to it again). Of course, it gets a LOT louder when accelerating.

Are there any recommended Flex pipe replacement parts/brands?

I know sometimes its (significantly) cheaper to buy the part on your own and give it to the shop, but for a part like this, I don't know if its worth the trouble.

Nope, not worth bothering with it. Just stop buy your local corner no name exhaust shop. This is the most common repair and they'll be the best at it. Shouldn't be more then 100$.

[sarsman45]

Just hope it isnt a leaking exhaust manifold. Those are expensive to replace

[Jawadali]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the long update:

The Good news:

I took it to a place today to get an estimate, and it looks like the area where the flex pipe connects to the (rear) catalytic converter was cracked pretty bad. In fact, when they went to show it to me, it disconnected completely!

I think this catalytic converter may have been replaced in the past, so this may have weakened that area.

They did a quick weld job, and the noise is now much less (I'd say pretty much back to normal). They charged me ~$40 for the job, which I think was all right. When I asked if it'd be good for a few weeks, the welder said it would probably hold for around a year.


The Bad news:

However, it seems that the flex pipe assembly (with cat), the resonator pipe assembly, and the muffler are all rusting to various degrees.

The flex pipe will probably go first, and replacing it is expensive due to the integrated cat. They quoted me ~$500 for just this part alone.

The resonator pipe and especially the muffler aren't as bad. However, the two flanges where these three parts connect are rusted quite bad (especially the resonator-muffler flange). I may be able to get away with only replacing the flex pipe assembly, at least for a few months, but I am more worried about the flanges.

According to the shop, the best long-term solution is to replace all three of these pieces, and I can see where they are coming from (especially with the Wisconsin winter). Their total quote was ~$1066 for replacing all three parts (mostly parts), and I think they are using Walker part numbers for their quotes.

I will probably have the car taken to another shop for a second opinion next week.


Just from checking Rock Auto, with the same Walker part numbers, the total comes closer to $550 after shipping/tax.

If anyone has recommendations on parts, brands, or stores for these exhaust parts, or any other recommendations on things to replace/not replace please feel free to share.

Thanks once again for all of your help!

[carsrus]

Walker is in general a good brand. However, those flanges are common issues. The solution is to cut out the flange and slip a pipe over and weld. Cost is ~30$ per flange. The OEM pipes are much, much superior to the aftermarket pipes available.

If the flex pipe section of the pipe is so gone then replace it when it goes bad again. However, I would try to salvage is and keep it going. My flex pipe weld also rusted throw and was saved by cutting about 6 inches of the pipe and replacing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Toyota-...ht_2466wt_1216 This part is also a great solution to save the front of the pipe. Aftermarket catalytic converters aren't really good. If you do end up replacing the pipe take the OEM catalytic converter with you. There worth about 60$.

[Jawadali]

Originally Posted by carsrus

Walker is in general a good brand. However, those flanges are common issues. The solution is to cut out the flange and slip a pipe over and weld. Cost is ~30$ per flange. The OEM pipes are much, much superior to the aftermarket pipes available.

If the flex pipe section of the pipe is so gone then replace it when it goes bad again. However, I would try to salvage is and keep it going. My flex pipe weld also rusted throw and was saved by cutting about 6 inches of the pipe and replacing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Toyota-Camry-catalytic-converter-flex-repair-down-pipe-SAVE-BIG-/320810601710?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &vxp=mtr&hash=item4ab1cd4cee#ht_2466wt_1216 This part is also a great solution to save the front of the pipe. Aftermarket catalytic converters aren't really good. If you do end up replacing the pipe take the OEM catalytic converter with you. There worth about 60$.

Thanks for the info. It's good to know that the OEM pipes are of very good quality, and that it's worth it to try and maintain them.

I don't think the actual flex portion is that bad - the connection between the flex pipe and the catalytic converter is the weakest link here, although it should be OK in the short term due to the welding. This cat may have been a replacement that was spliced in a few years back, which is probably why this area is weak in the fist place. (I know at least one of the cats was replaced, according to the service records). However, based on the condition of this connection, I think it'd be very difficult to try and weld the eBay part you linked above.

I am worried about the flanges though, as well as the brackets/hangers that connect to the car body and hold the pipes up. Although they didn't explicitly mention these, I think replacing them would be good preventative maintenance if its relatively cheap to do.

Hopefully I should be able to take it to another shop for their opinion sometime in the next week or two.

I'll also run by your idea of replacing out the flanges with pipes/welds with any shop I talk to, and see what they think of it. If this can prolong the life of the existing exhaust system for another 1-2 years (or even just to get though the winter), it'd be worth it, and later on, I could then replace all three of these parts if needed.