Looking for Advice - 98 Camry Suspension Work

[gotpriest]

2nd Inspection Completed, See Page 2 for Update.

Hello all -

I'm loathe to register on a forum simply to request help (as it feels largely like leeching off of an established community - but I'm in dire straits)

At the moment I am driving a 98 Camry 4 Cylinder with 131k miles on it. I am the third owner, and have complete records from the previous two owners. I purchased the car in 2008 with a little over 119k miles on it. It has been a fantastic vehicle for me. I drive it all four seasons in the Front Range of Colorado.

I'm coming up on a timing belt replacement (expected.) It was replaced at 70k and I was told they have about a 60k life. I've also been told that the way Camry Timing belts are built, if it does rip, it won't damage my engine. As a AAA member, I'm not too worried about having to have my car towed if that happens, though if I can afford it, I'll do it earlier.


What is of concern though:

It seems I have significant suspension damage.

This week, I took my car in to have the tires balanced, rotated, and aligned. In so doing, I found that my driver side tire was worn on the inside down to the secondary rubber, and almost through that.

Naturally, I assumed this was a suspension issue. The particular shop said I could not have the car aligned until certain parts were repaired. This was understandable.

It was at this point that I took the vehicle to my preferred mechanic. I had them perform a comprehensive inspection. (Though I'm wary of the work they did, they said they didn't look at the timing belt... on a comprehensive inspection, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Gen4 Camry has a viewing window for the Belt)

Currently, I have been diagnosed as such:

1. Front Driver Control Arm Bushing Needs Replaced
2. Front Driver and Passenger Bearing and Hub Assembly Replaced
3. Machine Rotors

Miscellaneous work that would be done at the same time.

3. Front Brake pads (down to 2mm.)

They said my Struts and Shocks are fine, which surprised me a little bit, as the struts have never been done, and the shocks were done at 55k.

I've read through the Haynes manual, and while the Control Arm Bushing can be done, Haynes doesn't even list instructions for the Bearing and Hub Assembly, saying that it is too delicate not to be done by a mechanic.

I understand Haynes' point of view on this. Be as that may however, I simply don't have 1k to drop on a Mechanic right now. I am a Mechanical Engineer Student, and would consider myself a novice mechanic. I have done Starters, Radiators, Oil Pan assemblies, exhaust assemblies, spark plugs, and a few other things, but never something this detailed.

I have a family friend who has worked on cars all his life on weekends, and claims to know suspension work, though he is only familiar with the brands of cars he has owned (no Toyotas.)

For those of you who have advice to offer, is it feasible for this man (I'd consider him an uncertified car expert,), my father (a skilled mechanic, but not like our family friend.), and myself to do this work? Or is it simply too dangerous and easy to screw up the bearings to even try it. From what I've read, I'll need a "press" in order to put the socket together, but I'm under the impression that I can take this assembly to a mechanic and get it done for rather cheap labor.

Also, I've never "machined" rotors, so I'm not sure what that involves. I can however do brake jobs / calipers / flush (with the proper pump).

Any advice on 1, 2, and 3 would be immensely appreciated.

Thank you for your time, any who afford it, you have my utter gratitude.

- John

[zythr]

Originally Posted by gotpriest

Hello all -

I'm loathe to register on a forum simply to request help (as it feels largely like leeching off of an established community - but I'm in dire straits)

At the moment I am driving a 98 Camry 4 Cylinder with 131k miles on it. I am the third owner, and have complete records from the previous two owners. I purchased the car in 2008 with a little over 119k miles on it. It has been a fantastic vehicle for me. I drive it all four seasons in the Front Range of Colorado.

I'm coming up on a timing belt replacement (expected.) It was replaced at 70k and I was told they have about a 60k life. I've also been told that the way Camry Timing belts are built, if it does rip, it won't damage my engine. As a AAA member, I'm not too worried about having to have my car towed if that happens, though if I can afford it, I'll do it earlier.


What is of concern though:

It seems I have significant suspension damage.

This week, I took my car in to have the tires balanced, rotated, and aligned. In so doing, I found that my driver side tire was worn on the inside down to the secondary rubber, and almost through that.

Naturally, I assumed this was a suspension issue. The particular shop said I could not have the car aligned until certain parts were repaired. This was understandable.

It was at this point that I took the vehicle to my preferred mechanic. I had them perform a comprehensive inspection. (Though I'm wary of the work they did, they said they didn't look at the timing belt... on a comprehensive inspection, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Gen4 Camry has a viewing window for the Belt)

Currently, I have been diagnosed as such:

1. Front Driver Control Arm Bushing Needs Replaced
2. Front Driver and Passenger Bearing and Hub Assembly Replaced
3. Machine Rotors

Miscellaneous work that would be done at the same time.

3. Front Brake pads (down to 2mm.)

They said my Struts and Shocks are fine, which surprised me a little bit, as the struts have never been done, and the shocks were done at 55k.

I've read through the Haynes manual, and while the Control Arm Bushing can be done, Haynes doesn't even list instructions for the Bearing and Hub Assembly, saying that it is too delicate not to be done by a mechanic.

I understand Haynes' point of view on this. Be as that may however, I simply don't have 1k to drop on a Mechanic right now. I am a Mechanical Engineer Student, and would consider myself a novice mechanic. I have done Starters, Radiators, Oil Pan assemblies, exhaust assemblies, spark plugs, and a few other things, but never something this detailed.

I have a family friend who has worked on cars all his life on weekends, and claims to know suspension work, though he is only familiar with the brands of cars he has owned (no Toyotas.)

For those of you who have advice to offer, is it feasible for this man (I'd consider him an uncertified car expert,), my father (a skilled mechanic, but not like our family friend.), and myself to do this work? Or is it simply too dangerous and easy to screw up the bearings to even try it. From what I've read, I'll need a "press" in order to put the socket together, but I'm under the impression that I can take this assembly to a mechanic and get it done for rather cheap labor.

Also, I've never "machined" rotors, so I'm not sure what that involves. I can however do brake jobs / calipers / flush (with the proper pump).

Any advice on 1, 2, and 3 would be immensely appreciated.

Thank you for your time, any who afford it, you have my utter gratitude.

- John

Hi I'd leave it to the professionals. You don't want to mess up where steering and handling are involved. Money spent now, could save you trouble later.

[Yuko]

Timing belts on the Gen 4 Camry 2.2L are rated for 90k miles with the revised belt design. Before it was only 60K. Sadly, there's no viewing window to the belt, the cover must be removed. Even then, it hard to judge the belt only on appearance.

Machining (A.k.a turning/cutting) rotors is a process of removing small amount of metal from the rotors braking surface to level and remove imperfection such as groove. it's also done to true wrapped rotors. About $10 to $20 per rotor to be done professionally. IMO, rotors are cheap and it better to buy news ones especially it they are too thin.

Were you having noise are driving problems? Rarely you would have to replace both front wheel bearing.

You can look through our DIY section for more advise.
Camry FAQ ------> READ FIRST -----> Comprehensive List of Gen 3/4 INFO and DIY

[ajkalian]

Suspension parts can be tricky because there are a lot of them, and most all of them end in some rubber bushing that attaches to the frame of the car.

While it's true that proper alignment cannot be done with suspension parts that are really worn, it's also true that most any repair shop will seize the opportunity to jam repairs down your throat. If you have a Les Schwab near you take the car there. They are pretty stand up type of place, and if they say your suspension is hosed, they will tell you where, and show you as well. Be skeptical.

There is no front bearing/hub assembly to replace. You might have misunderstood what they said, but there is only a bearing inside of the hub. It needs to be pressed out of the hub assembly and the new one pressed in. It is possible for you to remove the hub from the axle and take it to a machine shop to have them press out the old bearing and press in a new one. The charge should be around $50.00 for the pair. There is a DIY by BMR, one of the Moderators, on how to do it if you are interested, and it can be found here:

DIY - Front wheel bearing R&R

The timing belt is a right of passage for DIY'ers here, and there are many threads on how to do it. Here are some:

DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 1

My Timing Belt Job (Pics) 56k go away

And as far as the brake rotors, as was said, any machine shop can do it, for $15.00 a rotor. Kragen/Orieley, Pep Boys and Napa also can turn them. Measure yours and see if they still have enough meat on them. The tolerances are stamped on the rotor.

I prefer to turn rotors instead of replacing them. They have been through thousands of heat cycles and are seasoned. Although they might be scored or warped, the turning will get them back into spec.

Other's will chime in I'm sure on the direction you should take.

Good luck.

.

[mail2_jb]

I am not a mechanic, just a diy-er last may be 2 years. Don't know anything about the hub assembly.
I've replaced my rotors in the past. If you have done the brake pad job, you are 90% there. Get two rotors from any place (amazon, advanced auto, autozone, look for online coupon code or deals, ~$20 per rotor) and replace them rather than turn them. I had a bad experience with turning, it was the original rotor, but the moron who did the tuning screwed it up and had to replace it after just 3 months because of horrible vibration.
I am in the process of replacing my struts and I have seen many posts here on how to replace that bush. From what I read, not a difficult job at all.

Since you are short of money (who else not), I would try to do these two items myself.

[fullofzen]

Originally Posted by ajkalian

The timing belt is a right of passage for DIY'ers here, and there are many threads on how to do it. Here are some:

Not to hijack the thread -- but I love this statement. There indeed are superb how-tos on the timing belt. Really looking forward to it myself -- it's just a shame that it was replace professionally just 30k miles ago. Even more disappointing is that only a few weeks ago before the DIY bug bit me, I had the seals under the timing belt cover replaced due to some mild oil leaks.

[JohnGD]

1. You can buy what look like OEM LCA rear bushing and have it installed, but you'll be at about the same cost as an aftermarket LCA at around $48+shipping. Limited Lifetime Warranty. Fairly easy to install if you are mechanically inclined.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1027240

2. Hub, wheel bearing, retainer ring and new axle nut about $71+shipping. Timkin usually puts an OEM Koyo bearing in the box, the other common brand is NSK. You pay another $30-40 each side for press work at a local shop. The axle nut torque is very important, so borrow an axle socket and a 250 lb/ft torque wrench from Autozone's free loaner program.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1117578

3. Resurface the rotor, as mentioned, about $12-15 or so. But consider getting Centric C-Tek rotors at about $22 (or Raybestos or Wagner, all look like from the same factory).

Flush brake fluid with a low moisture activity formula. Like Castrol GT LMA or Valvoline Synthetic.

With the exception of the press work, OP should be able to do all the work if had DIY experience. If necessary get help from a mechanically inclined friend and loaner tools from Autozone's free loaner program (with refundable deposit).

[gotpriest]

Thank you fine gentlemen for your helpful posts.

The general consensus I'm getting out of this:

I can easily remove all the parts myself. It takes time, for sure, but I can do it.

I take the Hub Assembly to a mechanic to have new bearings pressed in.
I take the rotors to be machined/turned (or consider buying new if necessary.)

One thing I forgot to mention - The lower ball join needs to be replaced. I believe this is in the Haynes manual, but I don't have one near me at the moment to check.

If I can do this, it will save me 900 dollars of labor.

At the moment, I've been quoted about 160 bucks for two bearings, 230 for a Control Arm Bushing. (Local toyota dealer offers an entire control arm + bushing for 300), about 50 bucks for misc. parts associated with the bearings (sleeve, snap rod), standard break pad parts, and another 60 ish bucks for a ball joint.

900 bucks is a lot of savings for me. Sure, my car is torn apart for a full weekend, but I can deal with that. My next question is:

1: The damage to my suspension caused my driver tire to be in bad shape. If I do this work myself, I will not be able to perform it for four weeks. My father is a night charge nurse and works weekends, and his next weekend off will be in later February. Can my car limp along for 4 weeks with current damage without damaging my car even more.

2: Should I consider getting a second inspection from another mechanic to see their opinions? This was a local mechanic I trust, but I'm debating seeking a dealer, or a mechanic suggested in a post above.

3: About the ball joint earlier - is that also DIY possible.

You guys have been fantastic, again, cheers.

- John

[BMR]

Originally Posted by gotpriest

My next question is:

1: The damage to my suspension caused my driver tire to be in bad shape. If I do this work myself, I will not be able to perform it for four weeks. My father is a night charge nurse and works weekends, and his next weekend off will be in later February. Can my car limp along for 4 weeks with current damage without damaging my car even more.

With the front tires worn down like you said, I doubt it. When you start seeing that "secondary" rubber, you're not far from the steel belts.

2: Should I consider getting a second inspection from another mechanic to see their opinions? This was a local mechanic I trust, but I'm debating seeking a dealer, or a mechanic suggested in a post above.

That's always a good idea if you're laying out serious $$ to get something fixed.

3: About the ball joint earlier - is that also DIY possible.

Definitely, if you're doing it while replacing the lower control arm. The ball joint simply bolts on to the end of the control arm.

[gotpriest]

Originally Posted by BMR

With the front tires worn down like you said, I doubt it. When you start seeing that "secondary" rubber, you're not far from the steel belts.

For clarification, that front Driver tire has been replaced, just one week ago. When I saw it's condition, I immediately decided it needed to be replaced. Thankfully, Discount Tire gave it to me for free due to my family being long time customers. (About 20 sets of tires across my Brothers, Parents, and Grandparents in the last 20 years.)

My primary concern was whether I'd do lots of damage to the other tires (three years old, 15k miles on them.), the suspension itself, or the 2mm brake pads within 4 weeks.

+rep to many.

[BMR]

Ah, OK. The only concern I'd have is how badly the tires will get worn on the inside edges during the 4 weeks. And it's impossible to guess without knowing how far out of alignment it is. I suppose you could check every 100 miles or so, and if you see any abnormal wear, stop driving it?

The rest of it, no prob. 2mm of brake pad will easily last that long. And there's no way the suspension could be harmed.

[gotpriest]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

1. You can buy what look like OEM LCA rear bushing and have it installed, but you'll be at about the same cost as an aftermarket LCA at around $48+shipping. Limited Lifetime Warranty. Fairly easy to install if you are mechanically inclined.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1027240

2. Hub, wheel bearing, retainer ring and new axle nut about $71+shipping. Timkin usually puts an OEM Koyo bearing in the box, the other common brand is NSK. You pay another $30-40 each side for press work at a local shop. The axle nut torque is very important, so borrow an axle socket and a 250 lb/ft torque wrench from Autozone's free loaner program.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1117578

3. Resurface the rotor, as mentioned, about $12-15 or so. But consider getting Centric C-Tek rotors at about $22 (or Raybestos or Wagner, all look like from the same factory).

Flush brake fluid with a low moisture activity formula. Like Castrol GT LMA or Valvoline Synthetic.

With the exception of the press work, OP should be able to do all the work if had DIY experience. If necessary get help from a mechanically inclined friend and loaner tools from Autozone's free loaner program (with refundable deposit).

Thank you for your references. I imagine, by your prolific posting, that these are reputable aftermarket vendors? I only ask because the shop I was at wants $240 for the Front Control Arm Bushing alone, and the dealership wants $300 for the entire control arm and bushing.

Meanwhile, they priced the bearings out at about $100 a piece, so $71 makes sense for online. The dealership wants $65 for the ball joint, which seems reasonable. Then toss in some break pads and I should be good to go.

Also - BMR, probably a silly question, but I'm under the impression that your Gen3 Bearing would apply to Gen4 as well, as the mechanics of the vehicle didn't change that much, correct?

And, to answer the second post, the reason I'm replacing the bearings was due to information that my left bearing was toast, and the right was making noise (which I had noticed before myself)

Again though, this all hinges upon a second inspection. The dealership wanted $150 for an inspection :/ I found another reputable dealer in the area however, who only want 28 for a comprehensive inspection. That seems a bit low, honestly, but they come extremely well recommended in this area.

[ajkalian]

Originally Posted by gotpriest

Thank you for your references. I imagine, by your prolific posting, that these are reputable aftermarket vendors? I only ask because the shop I was at wants $240 for the Front Control Arm Bushing alone, and the dealership wants $300 for the entire control arm and bushing.

Meanwhile, they priced the bearings out at about $100 a piece, so $71 makes since for online. The dealership wants $65 for the ball joint, which seems reasonable. Then toss in some break pads and I should be good to go.

RockAuto is one of the best suppliers you will find anywhere. And the prices that they charge just goes to show you how much the dealer and other people are overcharging you for parts.

Since you are new here, we will give you a pass on questioning JohnGD's advice.

Around here, we consider him the go to guy for anything related to our generation of Camry's.

.

[JohnGD]

^ well I'm humbled. There are many talents here on TN who have taught me plenty too. It's great to have the chance to exchange ideas with everyone else in a fairly active forum. So I'll do my best to contribute my two cents.

[JohnGD]

If you'll feel more comfortable there is no problem using all OEM. It's worth the peace of mind.

Online OEM Toyota bearing is about $56. The hub $119. The ball joint $47. The rear LCA bushing (round) about $27. And the whole LCA $204. Add shipping. You can PM ToyotaPartsMan. He's an online dealer in Georgia (?) and gives 30% off MSRP.

So the $240 the shop quoted you is reasonable *IF* it's genuine Toyota. You just don't want to pay $240 to get a Dorman LCA. But paying Dorman prices for Dorman products is fine.
Or you can buy the $27 bushing and have a shop press it out/in for you if there's no rust problem on the LCA.

There are some components I'd stay OEM, like engine mounts. But I personally don't have a problem using Dorman LCAs, KoyoRad radiators, Timken bearings (some actually rebox of OEM bearings), Mobil-1 motor oil, Valvoline Synthetic brake fluid, etc.

Originally Posted by gotpriest

these are reputable aftermarket vendors? I only ask because the shop I was at wants $240 for the Front Control Arm Bushing alone, and the dealership wants $300 for the entire control arm and bushing.

Meanwhile, they priced the bearings out at about $100 a piece, so $71 makes sense for online. The dealership wants $65 for the ball joint, which seems reasonable. Then toss in some break pads and I should be good to go.