"New" car teething issues, '93 3VZ-FE

[K Series]

So I recently picked up a rather dubious '93 V6 auto wagon from an even more questionable woman at the incredibly alarming price of $900. It has 172,000 miles on the clock and seemed to be in serviceable condition. After getting it all registered and what not, I've discovered the following issues:

• It needs at least a left axle, probably a right as well. I knew this when I bought it, and I have the parts ready.
• The heater performs extremely poorly. The engine comes up to temp in a reasonable time (and STAYS THERE), and the coolant is a nice neon green, but the cabin heat is lukewarm at best. The hoses and heater core valve all seem to be in good condition.
• It smokes, like it's Joe Camel. I usually let cam cover gaskets slide, but I bought replacements to install before this thing decides to burn to the ground.
• The oil hasn't been changed since 2010. On the semi-positive side, it seems it hasn't moved much since then; it wasn't registered and the battery was dead when I got it.
• The transmission fluid is blacker than the night itself.
• The car has a lot of scraping-sounding mechanical noise at idle, not terribly loud but more than I'm used to. Is that normal for these cars or should I investigate?

My main question is this: Before I dive in on this stuff, is there anything I ought to know about this car? I'm a decent shadetree mechanic, but this Camry is a whole new level of complexity compared to my other car, and in any case I've never worked on a Toyota. The cabin heat is especially vexing to me; it seems to be a somewhat common issue but I've never seen a "typical" cause.

Side note- Nice forum you guys have. Been lurking here the last week while I've been cleaning this thing up, and I've really gotten some good information.

[ajkalian]

Originally Posted by K Series

• The heater performs extremely poorly. The engine comes up to temp in a reasonable time (and STAYS THERE), and the coolant is a nice neon green, but the cabin heat is lukewarm at best. The hoses and heater core valve all seem to be in good condition.

This could be a stuck open thermostat. It's easy to check. Remove it, drop it in a pan of boiling water, and if it moves, it's working, or you can just replace it. It's a $20.00 part from the dealer. It could also be the water pump, and the timing belt probably has never been changed, so that's something that probably should be done.

It smokes, like it's Joe Camel. I usually let cam cover gaskets slide, but I bought replacements to install before this thing decides to burn to the ground.

All V-6 camry's leak from the rear valve cover gasket. It's the way the engine tilts to the rear. It's a pretty big job to replace the gaskets. You have to remove most everything on the top of the motor.



Here's a thread on how to do everything. The timing belt, the valve cover gaskets, and lots more. It's an epic thread, like 12 pages long, but lots of good information. Your model year is a bit different, but most everything is basically the same.


Need Advice


and here's another one for just the timing belt:


Changing V6 Timing Belt Pics and the $270 Coil Connector

The transmission fluid is blacker than the night itself.

Change the oil, oil filter, drop the transmission pan, and clean it out, and change the strainer inside the transmission pan. Drain the differential as well. The later models share the same cavity as the transmission, but have separate drain plugs, and both are filled through the transmission dip sticl. Dumb ass design, but that's the way they did it. I'm not sure if your model year's transmission shares the differential. Someone can chime in that knows for sure.

The kit is $20.00 at Autozone. Try to get one with a rubber gasket. Re-fill the transmission with 4 quarts of fluid. Drive 200 miles, and drain the transmission, and the differential. Re-fill with 4 quarts and drive another 200 miles. If the fluid is pink, then you are good to go. If it is still a bit brown, do another drain and fill. No need to drop the pan except on the first go-round.

The car has a lot of scraping-sounding mechanical noise at idle, not terribly loud but more than I'm used to. Is that normal for these cars or should I investigate?

Impossible to diagnose over the internet.


Check out the DIY section at the top of the forum, if you haven't already. There's lots of stuff there, pretty much everything you will ever do to you Camry.

Camry FAQ ------> READ FIRST -----> Comprehensive List of Gen 3/4 INFO and DIY

Whew, that was a lot of typing.

Now it's your turn to get to work.

[K Series]

You're a gentleman and a scholar, sir. I've been eyeballing that FAQ sticky, and the cam covers look to be well within my ability. I'll have to get after this thing in the coming weeks.

[Bdub215]

well to my knowledge, 3VZ's arent the quietest motors on older oil. flip the script and they shut up fairly well. Now your case may be the same or could be worse. As far as everything else, Where does it smoke? The front or back? If the car moves on the trans fluid it has (well after the new axles are put in) dont change it. It maybe already too late for it. should you change it, it'll probably start to slip.

Also these motors are known for Head Gasket issues. Be aware of that. other then that they're solid when maintained.

[K Series]

Originally Posted by Bdub215

If the car moves on the trans fluid it has (well after the new axles are put in) dont change it. It maybe already too late for it. should you change it, it'll probably start to slip.

And here we see the two schools of thought on this again. You say I should NOT do the filter change? Obviously I don't like the idea of popping open the case of a 20-year-old transmission for reasons that go beyond just the fluid, but if it's fairly simple and will help it last longer, I'm happy to do it. I had also been under the impression that I was going to lose most, if not all, of my trans fluid anyway the second I pulled the axles. Is this not the case?

The smoke comes primarily from the rear bank, but some also seems to come from the front. Both banks have heavy buildup of oily crud around the valve covers.

[Bdub215]

Originally Posted by K Series

And here we see the two schools of thought on this again. You say I should NOT do the filter change? Obviously I don't like the idea of popping open the case of a 20-year-old transmission for reasons that go beyond just the fluid, but if it's fairly simple and will help it last longer, I'm happy to do it. I had also been under the impression that I was going to lose most, if not all, of my trans fluid anyway the second I pulled the axles. Is this not the case?

The smoke comes primarily from the rear bank, but some also seems to come from the front. Both banks have heavy buildup of oily crud around the valve covers.

The Axles are a 2 piece setup on the drivers side and 3 piece on the passenger side. unbolt and bolt in for the most part. Unless their screwed up in the trans, thats all you should need to do. You'll see what i'm talking about. and last i checked there wasnt a filter. just a metal strainer. But i'm like you i dont like the idea of dropping the pan on a 20 year old transmission. but thats me.

[71Corolla]

I really don't know where this idea started that servicing an old transmission will somehow cause it to fail, and leaving it alone will make sure it works fine. If a tranny is so far gone that removing build up and sludge is going to cause it to die, it is not going to last much longer anyway. I would drop the pan and clean, replace the filter, clean the magnets.

edit - if you buy a filter kit make sure the supplied gasket is not cork, many are and they tend to leak.

[BMR]

Smoke coming from the rear bank area can also be from the distributor O-ring. It's driven off the rear bank's intake cam. The O-ring seals the distributor's base where it inserts into the head. Just pull the two bolts holding it in and pull it out. Check/adjust the ignition timing after reinstalling it.

Edit: another common source of oil leakage is the oil filter mount. There's an O-ring where it attaches to the block.

[ajkalian]

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

I really don't know where this idea started that servicing an old transmission will somehow cause it to fail, and leaving it alone will make sure it works fine. If a tranny is so far gone that removing build up and sludge is going to cause it to die, it is not going to last much longer anyway. I would drop the pan and clean, replace the filter, clean the magnets.

edit - if you buy a filter kit make sure the supplied gasket is not cork, many are and they tend to leak.

I agree with you. It makes no sense *not* to change the oil in the transmission, the differential, the engine, the rear end, anywhere, when it's not been changed in a while.

The notion that somehow the grit is holding things together, makes no sense either. If it did, then a couple teaspoons of sand down the dip stick would do wonders for a slipping transmission.

I'm sure that one person in 10,000,000 that changes their transmission oil after it has never been changed had the transmission die on them. And I'm sure that one person posted his tale of woe on every message board and forum on the internet as well.

But the other 9,999,999 did it and had no problems. I'm going with the long odds.

.

.

[bolink654]

My 92 came with black trans fluid, despite the fact that it came with records showing 4or 5 trans flushes during the cars life with the original owner... though the last one was like 60k ago.

I changed it out with fresh, twice, been 2 tanks of gas... not slipping.

I have a 65 Mustang that has a C4 trans out of a 1980 Ford Fairmont. When I bought the car, I attempted to drive it home. However 10 miles down the road the front pump seal on the trans let loose. Old seal, ya know?

I returned with a trailer, added new fluid, drove it onto trailer ect. I also worked on lot of other things and drove it around with the bad leak before getting around to rebuilding the transmission. Anyway, my point is that it got it's fluid changed and never slipped. But when I got that trans apart, I found that a couple of the clutches in the clutch packs did not have ANY friction material left. If any transmission would be a candidate for "put in new fluid and it'll slip"... that one was it. But it did not.

[Joelwee]

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

I really don't know where this idea started that servicing an old transmission will somehow cause it to fail, and leaving it alone will make sure it works fine. If a tranny is so far gone that removing build up and sludge is going to cause it to die, it is not going to last much longer anyway. I would drop the pan and clean, replace the filter, clean the magnets.

I agree. A couple years ago, the tranny on our Yukon was slipping like crazy when coming off of stop signs. We took it to the local GM dealer and they told us they didn't want to change the fluid because removing all the junk inside the transmission would cause it to fail.

We brought it home and I flushed the transmission and filled it with fresh fluid; it hasn't slipped since then.