3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
This is for a 1993 Toyota Camry LE - 4 cylinder, automatic.
Coolant in reservoir keeps going down (pretty much every few days). Tried to get a pressure test done to see where the leak is but shop said pressure test was not accurate and wanted to take the radiator apart and said most likely radiator needs to be replaced.
A friend of mine replaced the radiator. But that hasn't fixed the issue. The leak happens kind of under the gasket system. Could it be the head gasket or the water pump?
I see it drip right around that area.
The dripping is not below the radiator so I know its not a broken radiator (and anyway it now has a new radiator). It cant be the coolant reservoir since that is a new one also. All coolant related hoses were recently replaced.
So what could be the issue? And how do I get this diagnosed? Should I try to get a pressure test done at another shop? Can a pressure test in this situation tell me if the issue is with the head gasket or water pump? Or does a pressure test only detect leaks in the radiator and hoses?
If it is the water pump or the head gasket I guess I am SOL, better to dispose the vehicle off?
So right now I am having to fill up the coolant tank (reservoir) pretty much every week, irrespective of how much I drive, it leaks off. And I have a puddle of green fluid under the engine.
If I just keep topping off the coolant reservoir every week and keep driving what are the implications? Could the leak due to the head gasket or water pump one day break the vehicle down and make it inoperable? FYI - the timing belt on my camry has not been replaced in ages, probably over 100,000 miles, so not sure when that will go kaput.
I cannot answer many of your questions without certainty, but lets start with one of the easiest. Did you check the radiator cap? If the cap is broken, the system will no longer hold pressure and the coolant will overflow in the tank and will leak out. If not, pics should help. Thanks.
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95 Camry LE I4 201k
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Put a piece of clean cardboard under the engine to see where leak is, unless you already know.
If you live in a place where it's hard to get a dry place to check for leaks, "go shopping!", lol.
Find a covered parking lot, i.e. a Mall, and a clean space to park, get two pens or pencils.
Park car and put a pen under the front of each front tire, Go Shopping.
When you come back to car back out of the space and take a picture of any leak spots including where the pens are located for reference points.
Pick up the pens
If coolant leaks on the passenger side near the front tire then it is the water pump that is leaking.
A Water pump leak drips out of the front plastic timing belt cover, so it is very close to the passenger side tire.
Water pump leak means main seal has failed and pump can fail at anytime, this would strand you, either from overheating or timing belt problem.
If leak is a little more to the front and middle but still on the passenger side it could be the Thermostat housing or By-Pass tubes that are leaking, you should be able to see these leaks or residue by looking at the front of the engine below the alternator where the lower radiator hose is connected, that is the thermostat housing and just above it are the metal by-pass tubes.
It is a common leak point and easily fixed.
If leak is on the center drivers side of the engine it is a hose or coolant manifold leak, sometimes hard to find but easily repaired.
Head gaskets rarely leak coolant externally, i.e. no coolant on the ground under the car.
Head gaskets leak coolant into piston cylinders, it is then burnt up and comes out exhaust as white smoke.
A head gasket leak almost always causes overheating as some exhaust gas is pushed into the coolant system and displaces coolant so engine is not cooled and overheats.
So if engine is just losing coolant but not overheating every time you drive it, the head gasket is probably ok.
The Following User Says Thank You to RonR For This Useful Post:
I cannot answer many of your questions without certainty, but lets start with one of the easiest. Did you check the radiator cap? If the cap is broken, the system will no longer hold pressure and the coolant will overflow in the tank and will leak out. If not, pics should help. Thanks.
Checked this again. The radiator cap is not broken.
Put a piece of clean cardboard under the engine to see where leak is, unless you already know.
If you live in a place where it's hard to get a dry place to check for leaks, "go shopping!", lol.
Find a covered parking lot, i.e. a Mall, and a clean space to park, get two pens or pencils.
Park car and put a pen under the front of each front tire, Go Shopping.
When you come back to car back out of the space and take a picture of any leak spots including where the pens are located for reference points.
Pick up the pens
If coolant leaks on the passenger side near the front tire then it is the water pump that is leaking.
A Water pump leak drips out of the front plastic timing belt cover, so it is very close to the passenger side tire.
Water pump leak means main seal has failed and pump can fail at anytime, this would strand you, either from overheating or timing belt problem.
If leak is a little more to the front and middle but still on the passenger side it could be the Thermostat housing or By-Pass tubes that are leaking, you should be able to see these leaks or residue by looking at the front of the engine below the alternator where the lower radiator hose is connected, that is the thermostat housing and just above it are the metal by-pass tubes.
It is a common leak point and easily fixed.
If leak is on the center drivers side of the engine it is a hose or coolant manifold leak, sometimes hard to find but easily repaired.
Head gaskets rarely leak coolant externally, i.e. no coolant on the ground under the car.
Head gaskets leak coolant into piston cylinders, it is then burnt up and comes out exhaust as white smoke.
A head gasket leak almost always causes overheating as some exhaust gas is pushed into the coolant system and displaces coolant so engine is not cooled and overheats.
So if engine is just losing coolant but not overheating every time you drive it, the head gasket is probably ok.
Thank you so much for the pointers. Here is what I already know.
1) The engine is not overheating. The only thing I see is that the coolant reservoir keeps getting empty every few days. If I fill it up completely it may last me say 2-3 weeks before going completely empty. But since I stay on top of it I dont let the coolant tank run empty, I keep filling it up.
So I think since engine is not overheating we can probably eliminate the head gasket issue.
2) The leak seems to be on the front passenger side very close to the front right tire. I have seen it drip down from there. If I turn the front passenger tire completely out I can see it drip down between inside of the tire and the mud flap.
3) Based on your description I am thinking it is a water pump issue.
4) I have been driving it in this state for over a year though, but as you said it could break anytime if it indeed is a water pump/timing belt issue.
Perhaps I should take it to a shop so they can mount the car up and take a good look and make the right diagnosis. I probably wont get it fixed at the shop but may be money worth spent for the diagnosis. Ended up spending $150 on a new radiator (part and labor) that was probably not needed :-(
Yes that location does read like the water pump shaft seal is leaking.
The "mud flap" is an inspection cover, if we are talking about the same thing.
With it removed(two 10mm bolts) you can see the crankshaft pulley.
Behind the pulley is the plastic timing belt cover.
On the lower part of this cover is an open slot, if coolant is coming out of that opening then it is from the water pump.
The water pump itself is only $30, the labor to get to it is what is expensive.
This is a DIY on getting to water pump, also changing timing belt, and other oil seals. DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 1
Since you already mentioned it, yes timing belt change is recommended on these engines at 60k-90k miles
You will see that it is in the general area of the leak point, so might be worth a closer look and "feel" for coolant leaking in that area.
Fluid can cling to surfaces and end up dripping at a spot away from the actual leak spot.
Keeping overflow tank full is a good idea.
I wouldn't fill overflow to the top when engine is cold though, leave a few inches for expansion, otherwise the coolant at the top will just overflow to the ground as engine heats up.
But you can fill it to the top when engine is warmed up, new fluid will warm up in the overflow tank so it's not the same as putting cold "water" in a hot engine, lol, a bad thing to do.
Last edited by RonR; 01-06-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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^+1 Sounds like one of your seals is gone. Replace the seals, water pump, timing belt, maybe even the t-stat just so you only have to pay a mechanic for going in there once.
__________________
95 Camry LE I4 201k
The Following User Says Thank You to bdy0003 For This Useful Post:
Yes that location does read like the water pump shaft seal is leaking.
The "mud flap" is an inspection cover, if we are talking about the same thing.
With it removed(two 10mm bolts) you can see the crankshaft pulley.
Behind the pulley is the plastic timing belt cover.
On the lower part of this cover is an open slot, if coolant is coming out of that opening then it is from the water pump.
The water pump itself is only $30, the labor to get to it is what is expensive.
This is a DIY on getting to water pump, also changing timing belt, and other oil seals. DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 1
Since you already mentioned it, yes timing belt change is recommended on these engines at 60k-90k miles
You will see that it is in the general area of the leak point, so might be worth a closer look and "feel" for coolant leaking in that area.
Fluid can cling to surfaces and end up dripping at a spot away from the actual leak spot.
Keeping overflow tank full is a good idea.
I wouldn't fill overflow to the top when engine is cold though, leave a few inches for expansion, otherwise the coolant at the top will just overflow to the ground as engine heats up.
But you can fill it to the top when engine is warmed up, new fluid will warm up in the overflow tank so it's not the same as putting cold "water" in a hot engine, lol, a bad thing to do.
I will try to see if I can get to the crankshaft pulley and see if I can find the source of the leak in the water pump the way you described it. And yes I think the mudflap you are describing is what I had in mind also.
And yes I found that the timing belt and the water pump kit were around $150. Will shop around and there are coupons for advance auto, auto zone etc, can probably try to knock that down to $80-90 for parts.
Of the below parts, would you recommend that I get item number 2? That should have both the timing belt and the water pump. I don't think I need the water pump housing since I can use the existing one, correct?
What other gaskets and hardware will I need (the way its shown in item 5)?
Also I looked around on craigs, found 3 mechanics that quoted me anywhere from $125 to $200 labor to replace both the water pump and timing belt. is that reasonable? Of course I need to find out how good these guys really are. Dont want my car stranded somewhere if they can't finish the repairs :-)
As recommended by another user also I will try to change the thermostat also.
Regarding topping off the coolant tank, yes you are right, I dont top off the tank since overflow occurs once engine is hot. I usually fill up when engine is cold (usually before I start driving in the morning, try to do this right before drive time, to minimize loss of fluid overnight). So I fill up about 3/4th or so to allow some room for overflow once the engine is hot.
I appreciate your response and step by step guidance.
^+1 Sounds like one of your seals is gone. Replace the seals, water pump, timing belt, maybe even the t-stat just so you only have to pay a mechanic for going in there once.
Thanks, will plan on replacing the t-stat also if I end up replacing the water pump and the timing belt.
You can save a bit of $$ by buying a kit which includes all the parts that really should be replaced. Aisin is the OEM supplier to Toyota, so a lot of folks (including me) like to go with them. For your year/engine, Aisin has two kits, one with the water pump housing and one without.
Edit: $125 - $200 is a very fair price for the job.
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1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 344k
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 280k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 47k miles
Last edited by BMR; 01-06-2013 at 10:28 PM.
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You can save a bit of $$ by buying a kit which includes all the parts that really should be replaced. Aisin is the OEM supplier to Toyota, so a lot of folks (including me) like to go with them. For your year/engine, Aisin has two kits, one with the water pump housing and one without.
Yes, I would go with what BMR recommended, OEM(Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts are best for this type of job, a high labor time job.
The few dollars saved on discount parts can get eaten up if you have to go back in and replace the discounted part in a short time frame.
A discount Radiator cap takes a few seconds to swap out if it fails, so not a big deal.
A discount water pump takes 4-5 hours to swap out......so extra price for piece of mind is worth it, IMO.
And if your keeping the car, then think of the extra cost as an investment, so you are really saving more money on the better quality parts over the long run.
Water pump housing is usually not replaced, a visual inspection for cracks or leaks would decide that.
Water pump housing is the back side of the thermostat housing as well, they live together.
$10 is $10 so up to you and your mechanic.
Things that need to be done if timing belt cover is off:
New Oil pump "O" ring and gasket
New Camshaft seal
New Crankshaft seal
New Water pump
New Timing Belt
New Tensioner
New Idler pulley
Things that should be done but up to you:
New Coolant
New T-stat, with Jiggle Valve
New Rad cap
New Power steering belt
Last edited by RonR; 01-06-2013 at 11:36 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to RonR For This Useful Post:
Yes, I would go with what BMR recommended, OEM(Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts are best for this type of job, a high labor time job.
The few dollars saved on discount parts can get eaten up if you have to go back in and replace the discounted part in a short time frame.
A discount Radiator cap takes a few seconds to swap out if it fails, so not a big deal.
A discount water pump takes 4-5 hours to swap out......so extra price for piece of mind is worth it, IMO.
And if your keeping the car, then think of the extra cost as an investment, so you are really saving more money on the better quality parts over the long run.
Water pump housing is usually not replaced, a visual inspection for cracks or leaks would decide that.
Water pump housing is the back side of the thermostat housing as well, they live together.
$10 is $10 so up to you and your mechanic.
Things that need to be done if timing belt cover is off:
New Oil pump "O" ring and gasket
New Camshaft seal
New Crankshaft seal
New Water pump
New Timing Belt
New Tensioner
New Idler pulley
Things that should be done but up to you:
New Coolant
New T-stat, with Jiggle Valve
New Rad cap
New Power steering belt
Thanks Ron.
I agree for something like water pump/timing belt it makes sense to go with quality parts given how labor intensive the replacement is. For $10 more I will probably go with the kit that comes with the housing.
Thanks for the list of items I need to replace.
In the items that you recommended, new coolant is not a problem, though the new radiator which was just put in did have a gallon of new coolant poured into it, but can re do it after the water pump is replaced.
I will probably do the thremostat also.
Will certainly do the new radiator cap since the rest of the radiator is new anyway.
I think I replaced the power steering belt 3 years ago or so, but when I turn the steering all the way to the right or left I have started hearing the screeching sound recently. I assume that is due to to a faulty power steering belt? So probably replace that as well.
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