Stall / Idle issues + suspected EGR + exhaust leak - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
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#1 Old 01-24-2013, 01:51 PM
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3rd Generation Stall / Idle issues + suspected EGR + exhaust leak

Re: 1993 Camry 2.2l auto

Here's yet another post about rough idle and stall issues once the engine warms up. My problem has been the car stalls or nearly does, particularly when stopping on an incline and/or when abruptly stopping.

I've narrowed in on the EGR valve (after doing the proper IAC cleaning shown here and here). I disconnected the air hose to the EGR valve and plugged it (as discussed here). The problem was gone when I took it for a test drive -- and sure enough the problem resurfaced on that same drive once I re-connected it.

A few questions:

1. Can I drive indefinitely with the EGR valve hose plugged like this, or would that cause harm?

2. Is it possible to clean rather than replace the EGR valve? It looks like a new EGR would be somewhere around $300. The car's only worth about $1k. I'm most interested in not having to put car on jack stands (i.e., leaving the pipe alone).

3. The CEL did not come on when I disconnected the EGR valve hose, nor when I disconnected the ECT engine coolant temperature sensor. Does that indicate a problem with the ECM? FWIW, before I did either disconnection, I used a paperclip and got no codes at all, just the flashing "all clear" sign).

4. I have an exhaust leak at the rear flange. Could this be contributing to the stall/idle issues? I read a reference somewhere to insufficient back pressure...

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

ND
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#2 Old 01-24-2013, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemodat View Post
Re: 1993 Camry 2.2l auto

Here's yet another post about rough idle and stall issues once the engine warms up. My problem has been the car stalls or nearly does, particularly when stopping on an incline and/or when abruptly stopping.

I've narrowed in on the EGR valve (after doing the proper IAC cleaning shown here and here). I disconnected the air hose to the EGR valve and plugged it (as discussed here). The problem was gone when I took it for a test drive -- and sure enough the problem resurfaced on that same drive once I re-connected it.

A few questions:

1. Can I drive indefinitely with the EGR valve hose plugged like this, or would that cause harm? It could cause harm, but it will decrease your fuel economy a bit. With a properly working EGR system, your combustion temperature will be slightly cooler, and the chance for pre-ignition (engine knock) reduced. Your 93 5S-FE has a knock sensor, so the ECU will retard timing due to the pre-ignition caused by the hotter combustion temperatures, which has the effect to decrease fuel burn efficiency (thus lower fuel economy). I wouldn't defeat the EGR system on an engine that does not have a knock sensor at all, but yours has it, so all you will experience is lower fuel economy.

2. Is it possible to clean rather than replace the EGR valve? It looks like a new EGR would be somewhere around $300. The car's only worth about $1k. I'm most interested in not having to put car on jack stands (i.e., leaving the pipe alone). Your problem isn't a dirty EGR valve. Your problem is your EGR valve or your EGR system is allowing exhaust gas into the combustion chamber when it should not. Because you changed the operating symptoms of your engine by disconnecting your EGR, then you know that your EGR valve itself, and all the tubing going to it and from it that carries exhaust, works properly. You likely have a failed vacuum modulator that does not shut off vacuum to the EGR valve properly. That should be your area of focus for diagnosing a repair solution.

3. The CEL did not come on when I disconnected the EGR valve hose, nor when I disconnected the ECT engine coolant temperature sensor. Does that indicate a problem with the ECM? FWIW, before I did either disconnection, I used a paperclip and got no codes at all, just the flashing "all clear" sign). I don't remember if your particular engine is OBD-I or OBD-II. If OBD-I, there are not near as many checks the ECU does to evaluate problems. An OBD-II ECU would certainly trip a check engine light if the EGR vacuum line is disconnected and operated that way for several trips. Both OBD systems will trigger a check engine light if the ECT sensor becomes disconnected, however. I have the feeling the sensor you disconnected likely was not the ECT sensor.

4. I have an exhaust leak at the rear flange. Could this be contributing to the stall/idle issues? I read a reference somewhere to insufficient back pressure... How major is the exhaust leak? It is doubtful you would notice an engine performance symptom on a small exhaust leak. For a major one, perhaps a little. But a major exhaust leak is more concerning in that there is an increased risk carbon monoxide can enter the cabin, so for safety sake (your sake), if get that leak repaired if it is major, or don't let it become major (all exhaust leaks gradually get worse, you know).

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

ND
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#3 Old 01-25-2013, 10:23 AM
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Regarding #3: Your Camry has OBD I, which is extremely resistant to throwing codes. I doubt there's anything wrong with the ECU. I had a very recent related experience with my two Toyotas... My Avalon (with OBD II) threw a P0401, which is "insufficient EGR flow"). I diagnosed it down to a bad EGR vacuum modulator. Coincidentally, my Camry (with OBD I) has the exact same p/n modulator, so I swapped them. The code cleared on the Avy, and EGR system showed "ready" on my OBD II monitor. Meanwhile, the Camry ran for a week with a known bad modulator without throwing any code.

Just an FYI on which Camrys have OBD I Vs OBD II:

OBD I:
1992-1995 with the 5S-FE four cylinder
1992-1993 with the 3VZ-FE V6

OBD II:
1996-onward with the 5S-FE four cylinder
1994-onward with the 1MZ-FE V6

1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 365k miles
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 308k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 49k

Last edited by BMR; 01-25-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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