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Should You Change Your Transmisssion Fluid on Your Gen 5 or Gen 6 Camry?

37K views 59 replies 32 participants last post by  hardtopte72 
#1 ·
2003 Camry I4 2.4L Auto Trans
100K Miles

Problem: Moderate "clunk" when I shift from Reverse to Drive. After braking around a corner the transmission seems to miss-shift a bit. There's a lag from when I press the gas to when the gear is engaged. This causes a slight "clunk" while driving.

A mechanic told me that my tranny fluid was much darker than it should be. He recommended a flush/fill and filter replacement.

QUESTION: I haven't flushed the tranny fluid since I bought it in 2005 at 32K miles. Should I mess with the fluid or leave it alone? If I mess with it will it just dislodge the crap and make everything worse?

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
2003 Camry I4 2.4L Auto Trans
100K Miles

Problem: Moderate "clunk" when I shift from Reverse to Drive. After braking around a corner the transmission seems to miss-shift a bit. There's a lag from when I press the gas to when the gear is engaged. This causes a slight "clunk" while driving.

A mechanic told me that my tranny fluid was much darker than it should be. He recommended a flush/fill and filter replacement.

QUESTION: I haven't flushed the tranny fluid since I bought it in 2005 at 32K miles. Should I mess with the fluid or leave it alone? If I mess with it will it just dislodge the crap and make everything worse?

Thanks in advance.
I don't know what the service interval is look in the manual. I would say though, if it is developing problems, not doing anything isn't going to lessen the progression. I would get it flushed and filled myself, I do on all my vehicles every 30-40k. They have filtering machines, that shouldn't allow the crap to get in and screw it up any more.
 
#4 ·
With that mileage it has to have some gunk in there and the likelihood is high that the detergents in the old atf are beat. With the I4 it is easy to get to the hoses that run to the cooler. disconnect the outflow hose from the cooler and catch the flow with a pan as you start the engine and allow it to run the few seconds it takes to pump the fluid out. It won't be dry but you can get a few quarts out this way. By replacing only a portion you are reintroducing some cleaning ability without totally shocking the system. Pulling and cleaning the pan and a new filter are also helpful, but I don't think I would 'flush' the system right now. See if you can't get the valves freed up so that it will shift properly.
 
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#6 · (Edited)
How's the fluid level?

04 Camry I4 has the Aisin U241E transmission. It's POS. Well, IMO all U-series are junk.

The main problem with U241E is a defect with fluid circuit design that at times can cause two gears to be engaged at the same time. There is no software fix for this. You just have to kinda "get used to it" if this is the cause for the clunk. There are other causes, including wear in the inner CV joint on acceleration.

But in general you should drop the pan and change the filter every 15-30K miles depending on severe-normal driving. Consider using Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle ATF, Valvoline MaxLife, or Walmart SuperTech Mercon-V that's suitable for Toyota T-IV (T-IV = dino Mobil-3309) or Mobil-1 ATF (new formulation suitable for T-IV, not the old formulation). (Basically read the label carefully. And remember cleanliness and fluid level accuracy are important.)

Usually varnish falling off and plugging stuff is reserved for 100K+ miles of neglected transmissions. I think Toyota think it's OK to leave it in there for the lifetime but later changeed to 60K miles for normal driving. HA HA HA 60K miles what a joke. :lol: Unless you're on a 3-year lease then it's fine, who cares right?

Edit: However, with the miles I would consider using Valvoline MaxLife ATF. There's no guarantee, but in general when you suspect transmission problems checking fluid condition and level is the first thing, and then just change it out with new fluid and filter, wipe the metal sludge off the bottom of the pan. Consider another filter change in 15K miles.

See if this will improve things. However, if the clutch packs are worn out from the blocked filter, then maybe MaxLife will help give you a little more time.


ATF kit, ~$20 + shipping on rockauto:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=539553
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the replies everyone. I talked to Toyota and a tranny shop and both said that doing a drain/fill, screen/filter change wouldn't make things worse. Everyone is saying no the flush so that's out.

So, is this a pretty easy job? I saw the ATF kit for $20 and i looks easy enough. Toyota said to just use whatever OEM fluid it requires. The shop is quoting $140-180 to drop the pan/filter.

I have basic tools and would have to do it in my driveway. Is it as easy as it sounds? Do I have to buff the pan edges or anything like that? Are there any computer settings that can affect the smoothness of shifting, etc?

What do you guys think?
 
#11 ·
My 04 has about 80,000 miles, once and a while, the transmission seems to get confused and pause at low speeds when I turn a corner and try to go, I just wait for it to decide on a gear then accelerate. I changed the oil in the pan twice waiting a week in between changes when i got the car at 50 k miles; the oil stayed clean the second time. Too lazy to take the pan off. I now change out what's in the pan every spring, I use Toyota oil, it takes about 4 litres or American quarts.
 
#14 ·
Should you change your lifetime transmission fluid?

Well, this is something I was not really sure of; But after reading around here and asking my mechanic, a lifetime fluid is a fallacy (at least for now).

Here is what the fluid from my drain pan looked like (even though the dipstick looked better) after 125K without a fluid change vs new T-IV on the left.



I am sending the sample off to Blackstone for evaluation and will post back with the results.

The picture makes it look a bit blacker than it really was but it certainly was dirty. I took the "safe" way out and put T-IV back in it because I wanted to follow Toyota's rule book. I just wanted to post this to thank hardtopte72 and others who helped me along the way to decide that changing the fluid was a must and maybe help others in the future.

I am taking a bit different route on changing/flushing than others though; mostly because I am not doing it myself. I had the pan dropped & the cleaned & about 5 quarts of fluid replaced. I am going to cycle probably another 12 quarts through it since I saw the crazy price my mechanic paid for the T-IV versus what I can get it for on Ebay ($12 a quart!!). Once I get the proper tooling I will do the complete flush. I can feel shift improvement already though.

I guess the lesson is don't trust a "lifetime" fluid when your vehicles service interval only runs to 144,000 miles and you are hoping for more like 300,000.
 
#16 ·
Well, this is something I was not really sure of; But after reading around here and asking my mechanic, a lifetime fluid is a fallacy (at least for now).

Here is what the fluid from my drain pan looked like (even though the dipstick looked better) after 125K without a fluid change vs new T-IV on the left.

I am sending the sample off to Blackstone for evaluation and will post back with the results.

The picture makes it look a bit blacker than it really was but it certainly was dirty. I took the "safe" way out and put T-IV back in it because I wanted to follow Toyota's rule book. I just wanted to post this to thank hardtopte72 and others who helped me along the way to decide that changing the fluid was a must and maybe help others in the future.

I am taking a bit different route on changing/flushing than others though; mostly because I am not doing it myself. I had the pan dropped & the cleaned & about 5 quarts of fluid replaced. I am going to cycle probably another 12 quarts through it since I saw the crazy price my mechanic paid for the T-IV versus what I can get it for on Ebay ($12 a quart!!). Once I get the proper tooling I will do the complete flush. I can feel shift improvement already though.

I guess the lesson is don't trust a "lifetime" fluid when your vehicles service interval only runs to 144,000 miles and you are hoping for more like 300,000.
Did you change the filter when you dropped the pan?
 
#15 · (Edited)
Wow. Thank you for posting this, especially with the picture! And please post the findings on the lab analysis.

My car's at 165k and haven't done a transmission change yet, but I have all the necessary tools and parts =_= Just busy, what can i say..

Im curious though, what was your reason for just doing a drain, fill, and pan drop vs the full flush the first go? Was it due to the high price the mechanic was charging you per quart? Jus want to make sure I read that correctly.

And are you worried at all about the many transmission failure theories that have been circulating across the web?
 
#19 ·
Wow. Thank you for posting this, especially with the picture! And please post the findings on the lab analysis.

Im curious though, what was your reason for just doing a drain, fill, and pan drop vs the full flush the first go? Was it due to the high price the mechanic was charging you per quart? Jus want to make sure I read that correctly.

And are you worried at all about the many transmission failure theories that have been circulating across the web?
No the price had nothing to do with it. I was surprised by the price but no big deal because I can try to find it cheaper now. I saw it at like $65 shipped a case on ebay at one point but now I can't find such a good deal. I might still do the full flush but that will be the next time it goes in to my mechanic or when I get it a chance to do it (and hopefully when I find cheaper fluid).

As far as transmission failures, yes that was completely why I performed the service. The transmission was working fine but I didn't want to take any chances since I plan to keep this car for hopefully at least another 125K. Besides the internet my mechanic (a very, very knowledgeable guy) told me that if I planned on keeping the car for the long haul then I better do the service but if I was planning on getting rid of it then I would be fine for a bit longer.

I will definitely post the results when I get them. I just sent it out though so the results could come in as little as a week or as long as a month I believe.

Did you change the filter when you dropped the pan?
Yes sir. Pan & magnets thoroughly cleaned and a new filter & gasket. To be clear though this is my mechanic doing the work. Mostly because as of now I am in the middle of a move and I don't even have a way to get the car off its wheels at the moment. Also not making excuses here but he did kind of do the hardest part of the job for me so now I can just get fluid and flush :grin:
 
#17 ·
Toyota T-IV ATF is not a lifetime product. It's actually Mobil 3309 and can be purchased from any Mobil products distributor. I purchase it of the internet by the case and replace about four quarts every spring along when I change oil and filter. 125k fluid change is four times too long for any ATF.Regards
 
#18 ·
In my not so humble opinion, there is no such thing as lifetime ATF. Do change it on a regular basis. Donald E George recommended the Mobil 3309 which is good. I use Valvoline MaxLife for all the Toyotas in my signature. MaxLife will work with Toyota WS & T-IV requirements.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Oh, also, for anyone who may see this and wonder why I went with T-IV. I decided that since Toyota says absolutely you must use T-IV and only T-IV (can't even use their newer WS fluid) and that since the fluid had done fine for 125K that I would take the "safe" route and just use it. Using Maxlife or WS or something like that might have been better but since this is currently my only vehicle I chose to stick to factory recommendation. Maybe at 250K ill try a different fluid.

*edit* sorry if I am repeating myself, I think this post and the one above it had some things repeated. I kinda forgot to re-read my original post.
 
#24 ·
I'd be very interested in the Blackstone results on the transmission fluid. I think we are equating the "darkness" of the fluid to degradation of the fluid. But experts on oil (BITOG forum) will argue that an oil turning black has nothing to do with how well it's lubricating and the only way to measure that is by laboratory tests. I think the Blackstone tests will reveal quite a bit.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Well guys I got the report. Maybe someone can tell me a bit more than they did? I was really hoping they would give me a bit more professional insight other than what i pretty much perceive as 'your oil was way past our 36,000 mile averages, the metals are high, so who knows? give us another sample'. Does anyone know any key metals/elements to look for as far as the U151E tranny failing and if so what metals are attributed to what?

I think my plan at this point is to order a case of fluid and do a flush and then run it for 36,000 miles and send another sample. It would be great if someone could tell us something about the scale of how much metal has to have come from where to raise the parts per MILLION count to what it is. When I think parts per million I am thinking of a very small amount of metal but im no transmission specialist.



Here is a link to the image,if anyone struggles to read it let me know and ill try to find another way http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/trinot87/Oil%20Report.png
 
#29 · (Edited)
On my 2004 Camry L4, the T-IV is supposed to lifetime according to the manual and the fluid level dipstick. I was not experiencing any transmission issues. The dealer kept recommending the ATF flush despite the manual. So, I finally did the drain, filter change and flush at about 250,000 miles myself. Using the thread on doing the flush was the most help but I read everything I could find and watched every video as well. I searched for every shortcut. It went pretty smoothly just took a lot of time and was very messy. The flush was the easiest part.

I removed the 3 difficult bolts using a GearWrench Ratcheting wrench from Northern tools. I didn't mess with the engine mounts. It was slow going. Removing the engine mount and raising the transmission might be the faster way of doing it. 2 of the bolts were not too bad to get too just slow turning with little room. The middle of the 3 was the most difficult especially getting the bolt back in. From what I remember, I think I could only get one finger of one hand and the wrench with the other and had to juggle it in there.
 
#31 ·
So, you don't trust Toyota's claim of a lifetime ATF change, yet you trust their recommendation to only use Toyota type IV, or as you said, "Toyota's rule book". Some logic there escapes me. If a reputable aftermarket manufacturer states their product meets type IV ATF parameters, they wouldn't be in business long if their product didn't meet said parameters. Toyota also recommends to use "Toyota Genuine Motor Oil", but I doubt you do. The Magnuson-Moss Act provides some consumer protection; it says warrantors cannot require branded parts be used in order to retain a warranty (unless they offer the part free of charge.)

I, also, use Valvoline MaxLife ATF on all my Toyota products, two of which call for type IV, and two call for WS: 06 Camry, 07 Corolla, 07 Tacoma V6, and 07 Lexus ES350.
 
#32 ·
I can see where you are coming from. However, products like Slick 50 and a million other synthetics and additives exist that aren't needed and in some cases don't do what they claim. Also, Toyota's "lifespan" for my car ends at 144,000 miles so therefore I would have to say they are probably correct and that the fluid would have taken the car to its 144,000 mile lifespan.

My manual nor any Toyota source I have sourced has said that Toyota motor oil is required. Suggested yes, but not required. The service bulletin I read from Toyota said T-IV transmissions require T-IV and can't use WS or any other fluid (I am trying to source that bulletin but don't have the time right now; if someone else has it that would be great or if not I will try to post it later). My manual states " Oil to satisfy the following viscosity": then shows this 5W-30 picture.


Now, I am by no means saying that Maxlife is bad, I think I even said it might have been better but who really knows? There are debates for miles on bob is the oil guy and everywhere else but few with the miles to show the results. I would love a clear cut answer and maybe 3 years from now I will be putting Maxlife in after this T-IV flush.
 
#34 · (Edited)
any tips on how to drop the pan on a u2410e transmission? I see 3 bolts blocked by a crossbar that seem really hard to get to, any tips on how to remove those? thanks. do you need to remove the crossbar, or will a flex wrench or a flex ratchet (what drive? 1/4?) help? thanks.
and when you drop the pan (i dropped the engine oil pan recently) do you use a utility knife to cut thru the gasket or something else? thanks. i just did a drain and fill and also, behind the pan, my case is leaking, but i want to drop the pan and replace the gasket/filter to see if the "case" still leaks
if not, then that means my case is fine and it was my gasket most likely
what filter/gasket shoudl i use, the wix or the dealer oem? the dealer oem is only slightly more expensive, but is the wix also pretty good? thanks.

http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2297326/04-camry-black-transmission-fluid
 
#35 ·
any tips on how to drop the pan on a u2410e transmission? I see 3 bolts blocked by a crossbar that seem really hard to get to, any tips on how to remove those? thanks. do you need to remove the crossbar, or will a flex wrench or a flex ratchet (what drive? 1/4?) help? thanks.
and when you drop the pan (i dropped the engine oil pan recently) do you use a utility knife to cut thru the gasket or something else? thanks. i just did a drain and fill and also, behind the pan, my case is leaking, but i want to drop the pan and replace the gasket/filter to see if the "case" still leaks
if not, then that means my case is fine and it was my gasket most likely
what filter/gasket shoudl i use, the wix or the dealer oem? the dealer oem is only slightly more expensive, but is the wix also pretty good? thanks.

http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2297326/04-camry-black-transmission-fluid
If you checked the DIY section, you would see a DIY with the required steps for a U241E pan drop complete with pictures, part numbers, and complete instructions:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...official-gen-5-6-diy-vehicle-info-sticky.html

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...6-trans-filter-change-fluid-flush-w-pics.html
 
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#37 ·
There is no way you saw a drain and fill and missed complete steps for the transmission pan removal which are literally in between the drain and fill steps. You would have had to actively avoid looking at the steps to miss them.

Read it again.
 
#38 ·
2003 Camry LE 2.4L Transmission filter and fluid

I am trying to change my transmission fluid. Do I need to change my filter or stariner also?

This model has a strainer or filter? Does it needs to be changed with fluid change?



Also need to know if anybody knows any transmission flush just like coolant or motor oil flush I can use before I change the transmission fluid?
 
#39 ·
You don't have to change the filter. Heck, you really don't need to change the transmission fluid according to Toyota. Lots of people on this forum think it's good preventative maintenance. It's not too expensive and you feel better after doing maintenance on your car.

Here are the directions to do a transmission filter change: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...6-trans-filter-change-fluid-flush-w-pics.html.

Good luck.
 
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#41 ·
My transmission fluid is very clean and normal. But I was just not sure if it was necessary or not to change filter. If not required I am not going to waste money than. I already did all other tune ups though.

When I bought the car it had black motor oil. I already changed and flushed motor oil 3 times. Now its clear. Should I drop the oil pan and clean the oil pump strainer , because there is a possibility that gunk built up in oil pan?
 
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