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Kensun H11 55W not all that bright

6K views 51 replies 8 participants last post by  hardtopte72 
#1 ·
Hey everyone! This is my first post so excuse me if this has been asked before, but I have looked around and couldn't find an answer. I have a 2011 Camry LE and I upgraded my headlights to the H11 KENSUN HID 6000k kit.

I originally bought the H11 Opt7 55 watt LED kit and was rather disappointed with the brightness, the color was perfect, they just were not all that bright. Anyway, I kept them and am going to move them down to my fog lights (I need all the light I can get, cannot see squat at night) and bought the Kensun's. Even with the Kensun's I am not all that impressed.

The reason I decided to go with the Kensun's is because I have them on my Dodge Ram and they are super bright, cannot drive at night without people flashing their brights at me.

My question to you is, are they dimmer than what I have in my Dodge because they are in the projector housing? Would adding the relay that hooks them directly to the battery help by adding power? They don't seem to flicker, so I am not sure if the relay would be a waste of money or not, but my Ram does have it, but it needed it because of the flickering.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Tom
 
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#2 · (Edited)
PNP HID kits are not designed for projector or reflector based headlights that were designed around halogen bulbs. Output will suffer as the light is being thrown everywhere. This is why people flash you in your truck, especially assuming you have 55w HIDs in them. Your output isn't any better when considering lighting efficiency, yet you're blinding your fellow drivers on the road. Drive down the road in your Camry with your Ram coming at you and tell me you aren't being blinded. Only the light in the very FRONT of your car will appear brighter. Downside to that though is your distant vision suffers. People assume more light immediately in front of you is better, which is a sad misconception if you actually want to be able to see what's down the road. I guess they also do it to imitate that color flicker HID equipped cars have. Having that extra distance of being able to see farther down the road can save you from hitting that deer.

TL;DR: PNP HID kits have no reason to be in housings not designed for them. Glare produced blinds other drivers. Too much light in front of you is not allowing you to see far down the road as your eyes adjust to that bright light, dimming what's already dim... Retrofit projectors from a car that came with HIDs stock (Popular ones being: RX350, MDX, S2000, etc) if you actually want to see the road.

If this post came off as harsh, it wasn't meant to be. Just trying to bring you to the light (no pun intended!)
 
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#3 ·
Thanks Zmon! If I understand you correctly, the only way to get the look and feel of HID's is to retrofit some headlights that came factory with HID's? Otherwise by using the PNP HID's they may enhance the visibility some (as in my case with the Camry) or they will throw the light all over the place (like in my Dodge), which helps me but hinders other drivers. So, needless to say, no PNP solution will do what I am trying to accomplish, or mimic factory high end HID applications.

I figured it was something along those lines. Oh well, guess I will just have to settle for the little improvement for a while, at least until I decide to go down the retrofit path, which I am not sure I will, seems like it could be a hassle.

Thanks again!

Tom
 
#4 · (Edited)
Very close, but in reality your Dodge isn't really helping you. When light isn't controlled through projector or reflector design, it goes everywhere. Light should project OUT and down the road you are trying to illuminate. This can only be accomplished through proper design.

What your Dodge is most likely doing is giving you a ton of foreground lighting (the light directly in front of your car). Too much foreground lighting significantly reduces distance vision (seeing down the road) because your eyes adjust to the overly bright and mostly unimportant area directly in front of your car. The reason this is bad is because it causes you to overdrive your headlights (meaning drive at a speed or in conditions that don't give you sufficient time to react to hazards). Basically, you are so busy looking at the overly bright 100 feet in front of your car at 60 MPH, that when the deer or kid jumps in front of the road at 250 feet (which is pitch black to you), you don't see it with sufficient time to react effectively. This can cause you to swerve and lose control or simply smash into the object.

Additionally, since the light isn't controlled and projecting DOWN the road it goes above the normal cut off lines. This means that rather than having headlights shining the road and signs on the side of the road, you are shining lights in the trees, 2 or 3 lanes to your left or right, and/or into peoples eyes (which can dazzle them and cause them to crash into you or something else) RATHER than the road. Blinding other people so they have to shine their brights at you is a really bad practice.

Here is an article I found explaining these principles:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/NVS/Public Meetings/Presentations/2004 Meetings/Farber.pdf

PnP HID kits are a terrible idea almost always.

While you can do complex retrofits using non standard projectors, the Camry models actually have nearly bolt in retrofit options that make it much easier than say a vehicle like my Corolla. For a Gen 6.5 model, there is an RX HID projector (I can't recall if it is AFS or non AFS) that is allegedly a direct bolt in for the 2010+ Camry 3" projector. Swapping to those would mean all you do is bake and open headlight, unbolt old projector, bolt in new projector, add correct bulb cover or cut your own, install bulbs, install ballasts, and install wiring kit.

Hope that helps!
 
#6 ·
Thanks again! I am actually quite interested in doing a retrofit now, doesn't sound quite as costly or as expensive as I originally thought. Another thought, do they make aftermarket headlights for the Camry that have projectors designed for HID lighting? I was looking around and most of the aftermarkets have projects but I am assuming they are designed for halogen bulbs, not HID.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I believe some of the Camrys overseas could be found with an OEM HID application, at least some 07-09's were over in Russia if I recall correctly though I'm not sure if they continued that with the 10-11's... Though, I do recall someone buying them and saying the projectors were nothing special in them on this forum somewhere.... Not sure if that'd be the case with 10-11's if they offered that, but I wouldn't risk it. They were costly for a loaded headlight (bulbs, ballasts, etc), you'd also have to do some electrical work. These would run you at least $6-900.

Anyways, TheRetrofitSource sells all the parts you would need. So... if you use all of TRS's parts, that'd run you a total of $390 (RX350 projectors $200, ballasts/bulbs $160, and a clear lens $30). You can probably find cheaper ballasts than their offering, but it's a hassle if you have to use D4S bulbs (I don't believe their D2S igniters work with D4S), but supposedly they said the RX350 can take D2S bulbs but that'd be something to ask TRS about. You don't exactly need the clear lens, it just provides more color flicker and a sharper cutoff (some people don't care for the extra color and the sharp cutoff, they'd prefer the OEM lenses that provide a blurrier cutoff that would give them an easier transition from light to darkness on the road vs a sharp transition).

The nice thing about the RX350's is that they are bi-xenon (this means when they are used in high beam mode, a solenoid moves the projectors cutoff shield down to allow more light out), so you can wire them up to your existing halogen high beams and enjoy the increased light when you use them.
 
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#18 ·
I believe some of the Camrys overseas could be found with an OEM HID application, at least some 07-09's were over in Russia if I recall correctly though I'm not sure if they continued that with the 10-11's... Though, I do recall someone buying them and saying the projectors were nothing special in them on this forum somewhere.... Not sure if that'd be the case with 10-11's if they offered that, but I wouldn't risk it. They were costly for a loaded headlight (bulbs, ballasts, etc), you'd also have to do some electrical work. These would run you at least $6-900.
+1 The 2009-2016 Asian Camry and Venza come with HID lights, but their projectors are pretty much the same H11 projectors modified to take D4s bulbs and they are so-so performers compared the the RX350 projectors.
OP, if you want to convert the RX350 to D2s bulbs, all that you need to do is to file off a small "D4s" bump on the base of the projector at 9 o'clock.
 
#10 · (Edited)
You'll have to e-mail or call them and ask (edit: they also have a live chat that's accessible during their work hours, this would be the fastest way to contact them if you don't want to call). I'm not entirely sure how aftermarket ballasts would work with D4S bulbs (as far as I know, you can only use OEM D4S ballasts with those bulbs at the moment). You may be able to use D2S bulbs instead, which would widen your options, you'll want to address that with TRS as well, I believe you just have to make a notch in the bulb to get it to fit, but again, TRS would know for sure.
 
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#9 ·
Hey everyone! This is my first post so excuse me if this has been asked before, but I have looked around and couldn't find an answer. I have a 2011 Camry LE and I upgraded my headlights to the H11 KENSUN HID 6000k kit.
You upgraded the seller's bank account and downgraded your lights.

I kept them and am going to move them down to my fog lights (I need all the light I can get, cannot see squat at night)
Fog lamps are not auxiliary headlamps. You're hurting your ability to see by running fog lamps at highway speeds.

The reason I decided to go with the Kensun's is because I have them on my Dodge Ram and they are super bright, cannot drive at night without people flashing their brights at me.
They're not super bright, they're just generating excessive glare (and at the same time, putting less light where YOU need it). Unfortunately, our own optical system often will tell us that light where we don't need it means we're actually seeing well, which is why they may seem bright to you as the driver.
 
#11 ·
I cannot thank you all enough! I wish I would have started using the forum years ago! The knowledge and expertise you all have is astonishing! The funny thing is I have always considered myself capable of doing mods, but now I realize I am good at rigging something, but not necessarily doing it the proper way.

I will be reaching out TRS and see what I can get set-up.

How difficult is it to open up the headlights? I have always been skeptical about breaking the seal. It appears to be as easy as using a heat gun or throwing it in the oven, but I have read some topics and they mention permaseal. Do you know if the 2011 Camry headlights are sealed with it? I can do some more research, but you all seem to have this information at the tips of your fingers.

Thanks again guys! You ROCK!
 
#12 ·
I believe Permaseal was used on 2012+ and newer aftermarket replacement lamps (TYC and Depo). Your 2011 should be sealed with standard sealant THOUGH, I may be wrong (like 99% sure it's standard sealant).

Remove all screws, plastic, or rubber. Bake at around 200° for 10 minutes and slowly pry them apart.
 
#16 ·
I'd try to stick with 4300K ~ 5500K... (I'm actually going to make a post on this soon with regards to how the different Kelvin varieties affect my night driving performance.)
Within the range of allowable white light, bluer headlamps have been shown to be 46% more glaring than yellower ones for a given intensity. (This is well-documented in UMTRI studies.) Often, this glare is interpreted as "more light/seeing better" -- again, that's why people think their HID kits allow them to see better than with a properly aimed halogen headlamp system using quality bulbs, and being provided sufficient voltage.

(Once you get to HIDs that are *outside* the allowable range of white light, the ones that tend towards blue are even more glaring, giving maximum irritation and disability glare without any benefit to seeing performance.)
 
#28 ·
The 6.5 gen Camry might be an improvement but the Gen 6 Camry projector lens is TERRIBLE for what I think is acceptable night vision. When I drive by stock Gen 6's at night I don't know how they can see. I'll show you a picture of what the lens looks like and you'll see why I think updating to H9 is a waste for those who don't want to spend much money on further upgrades.
 
#30 ·
I have no degree in optics or physics, but I went through enough of cars, headlights, projectors, lenses and bulbs to know that H9 in halogen projection lights makes even less sense than PNP (Plug&play HID kit) unless you don't care about glare. H9<PnP. Real improvement starts from modified projectors paired with clear lenses and PnP. But no matter what you do, even PNP with clear lenses and shut squirrel spotters<<HID retro.
I recommend to spend a few HRS on hidplanet.com
 
#31 · (Edited)
I have no degree in optics or physics
That's OK.
but I went through enough of cars, headlights, projectors, lenses and bulbs to know that H9 in halogen projection lights makes even less sense than PNP (Plug&play HID kit) unless you don't care about glare.
But it doesn't give you license to spread disinformation. There are many halogen projector lamps that were designed around the H11 that will work safely and effectively using the H9.

I suppose it is slightly better that you'd prefer to not do an H11-to-H9 swap in ANY headlamp, rather than wanting to do it for EVERY headlamp, but doing it on a case-by-case basis, with the knowledge of the headlamps' optics, is really the best way. For the lamps that the swap works with, it's much, much easier and surer and cheaper than trying to 'retrofit' a different projector into the lamp.
 
#32 ·
Here's the thing: ANY modifications to ANY headlights are illegal.
More output (from PnP or H9) creates more reflection from the bowl and more glare through the factory squirrel spotters (and reflector type lights are x100 worse) and if you haven't cover your squirrel spotters and most ppl don't, no matter if it's PnP or H9 you are blinding ppl and the only solution is to partially or completely close the spotters and considering the safety and retro output, $400-500-600 is a small price to pay for a good retro.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Here's the thing: ANY modifications to ANY headlights are illegal.
False.

There ARE modifications which are illegal, yes, but it does not mean that ANY modification to ANY headlamp is illegal.
In the case of the H11 to H9 swap, one *can* carefully make an adjustment to the "awning" over the cutoff plate to cut down on the OSL if you feel the output is objectionable.

This is quite enough; I am more knowledgeable about this subject, including the laws. Please stop trying to win an argument about facts by merely repeating your opinions.
 
#37 ·
I don't think he is saying that. H9 swap refers to the bulb only.

He specifically said he was against retrofits:
In my opinion even changing a bulb to one that was not intended (ie. swapping a H9 for an H11) for use in an assembly would nullify the DOT approval. Where swapping a 9006 for a 9006 silver star would not since they both are 9006.

LOL! No, I'm not saying that at all. Where have I said such a thing? I'm the one that says NOT to do "HID retrofits", in case you didn't know.
I know that is what you said, but I do agree with others that is you are going to do this type of thing a true retro fit is the best way to go. Even if it is technically against the DOT it is the only way to improve the Camry's poor lighting with out cause other problems like excessive glare.
No, I don't have to, because that's now how that works. Now, if I wanted to manufacture, import, or introduce into interstate commerce a regulated item of motor vehicle equipment, I would have to *certify* that it meets the apposite standards. And to whom would I submit it? I could take it to CalCoast ITL or another such place, but not to the NHTSA.
Yes you would some how prove that your "modified" head lights meet the DOT specs. All the tests are outlined in the document mentioned above. Whether you or someone else performs the test, the results need to be sent to the DOT for approval. With out approval they are considered "for off road use only". If you go to any auto parts store you can find many "off road only " replacement parts, 100/150 watt Halogen bulbs just as an example.

These are my thoughts and opinions, if you don't agree, we just have to agree to disagree. nothing more nothing less.
 
#38 · (Edited)
In my opinion even changing a bulb to one that was not intended (ie. swapping a H9 for an H11) for use in an assembly would nullify the DOT approval. Where swapping a 9006 for a 9006 silver star would not since they both are 9006.
There's no such thing as DOT approval.

I do agree with others that is you are going to do this type of thing a true retro fit is the best way to go.
The only real "retrofit" would be to take the complete lamp assemblies from a similar/same model year vehicle (the complete assembly; no baking apart anything, no gluing things back together, no throwing in projectors that weren't part of the complete assembly). This can be done safely and legally (and somewhat expensively) on vehicles that come in both halogen and HID 'flavors', for example, a 2004 Toyota Sienna. No baking apart, no gluing, no guesswork.

Yes you would some how prove that your "modified" head lights meet the DOT specs. All the tests are outlined in the document mentioned above. Whether you or someone else performs the test, the results need to be sent to the DOT for approval.
You're just demonstrating more and more that you don't understand the laws. Yes, you can couch all this in "it's your opinion", but it doesn't make you right.
Nobody needs to send anything to the DOT for approval prior to manufacture or sale-- its a "self-certification" basis. A manufacturer need only "certify" (that is, "state", not "prove") that a product meets the applicable standards.

The only time the NHTSA will require actual documentaion regarding the compliance of the item is if it's triggered by an investigation.

With out approval they are considered "for off road use only". If you go to any auto parts store you can find many "off road only " replacement parts, 100/150 watt Halogen bulbs just as an example.
The "off road use only" disclaimer has no legal weight with regard to FMVSS 108. The markings on packaging to that effect do not absolve the manufacturer of liability. Because the 150/100W bulbs would fit in an item of regulated motor vehicle safety equipment (for example, a 150/100 HB1-shaped bulb that would fit in a headlamp designed for a real HB1 would render that equipment inoperative (by way of bringing every aspect of the lamp's performance out of compliance, although it'll probably melt parts of the lamp assembly and possibly damage wiring)) they are illegal per se; disclaiming "for off road use only" does not exempt them.

These are my thoughts and opinions, if you don't agree, we just have to agree to disagree. nothing more nothing less.
It's fine to have thoughts and opinions, but don't expect anyone to take them seriously when they have no factual basis.
 
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