Begone, damn seam, BEGONE!!

[thoots]

I just posted the pictures of that SE with the dealer-installed billet grille and 18-inchers, so what was I doing at the dealer today? Killing one damn butt-irritating seam, that's what! Check it out:



There has always been one problem bigger than any other with my XLE -- I have NOT found the seat to be all that comfortable. Oh, it's not really the seat being uncomfortable in an overall way -- no, it's been just a seatful of bumps that has irritated me.

First and foremost has been that DAMN SEAM down the middle -- whose brilliant idea was that?!?!??? Who the hell wants to sit on that thing all the time?!?!??? Not me!! But, that kind of seam appears to be "in style" these days. GET THAT DAMN SEAM AWAY FROM MY SORE BUTT!!!!

So we did.

I've gone to "the guy my dealer uses for all of its upholstery work" -- a guy who drives his truck / mobile workshop to the lot every Friday morning, and takes care of business. The rest of the week, he's doing the same thing at other dealers in the area. BUSY guy, who has been in business for nearly 30 years.

This is actually the third round I've done with the guy -- we tried a couple of lesser things before ditching that damn seam altogether. One big thing we did was to move the whole seat heater back an inch or two, since another part of the bumpy seat syndrome with the leather seats is the fact that the wiring harnesses for the seat heater are a bit in front of the seat back -- right where your tailbone can hit them, especially if you dial out the lumbar support.

So, with those out of the way, and then with a new piece of leather sewn in to replace that inner part with the seam down the middle, I finally have a driver seat with "nothing but cushion" under my butt. Peace at last!!

I'm pretty darn happy with how it turned out -- he had leather on hand that matched color-wise far better than I ever expected he'd have. It doesn't look like it (not the best weather for accurate in-car colors, with miserable rain today), but this is "bisque" leather. The passenger seat remains stock, but I won't be sitting on that damn seam anymore!

Once I get some better light, I'll take some decent pictures of the piece we took out of there -- you wouldn't BELIEVE the extent of that seam down the middle. Sore butt, indeed!!

So, for those of you with sensitive butts like mine, you might consider getting something like this done!

[Netforcer]

so you only got it done for the drivers seat only? any plans for the passenger seat as well... looks kind of odd for only one seat... would be less noticeable if the seats were black

[thoots]

Originally Posted by Netforcer

so you only got it done for the drivers seat only? any plans for the passenger seat as well... looks kind of odd for only one seat... would be less noticeable if the seats were black

Yep, driver side only. I'm not too concerned about how it looks -- I'll be sitting on it, for the most part.

I could get the passenger side done, but it's just more money to spend. So long as I don't have to sit in the dang seat, might as well keep it "stock," and spend the bucks just making my seat as comfortable as I can get it!

[Old Dood]

How much did it set you back?

Looks good though and I totally understand what you are striving at...

After all that I would like to get the heated element to go up my back a bit more.

My Buick heats not only the seat but my lower back as well. Feels good...

Wish the Camry did too...

[Camread]

the reason for the seams is to prevent sagging. they should reinforce the drivers seat on every vehicles so it wears the same rate as the pass. seat

[sigmund]

It looks like they did a nice job. Very clean looking. It seems like alot of car seats these days have the seam down the middle. My wife's Mazda CX-7 seats have a seam down the middle also. I have not been for any extended rides in my Camry yet. I hope that seam dosen't turn out to be a problem for me also.

[atirevold]

I don't even notice the seam on mine.

He did do a good job on it though. Glad you and your rear are happier now

[thoots]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

How much did it set you back?

Looks good though and I totally understand what you are striving at...

This handiwork set me back a whopping $250 -- a bargain, as far as I'm concerned!

The first thing we tried, about six months ago, was to add padding on each side of the seam, hoping the seam would more "drop down in between" the padding more. And we added more padding around the seat heater wiring harnesses. That was $100, and worked to an extent.

Second time around, about a month ago, we moved the seat heater back two inches -- "one inch" would have done well, but it worked better from a "sewing it all back together" perspective to put it back two inches. That got the wiring harnesses out from under my butt. But, we also tried to hog-ring the seam down all the way back to the very back edge of the seat -- it stopped right before the wiring harness bump area, then you could see how the seam "rose up and then curved down" as it went toward the back of the cushion, making yet another "bumpy area higher than the rest of the seat cushion," so we were trying to mitigate that. That set me back $125. Getting the wiring harnesses out of there was a very good thing, but what we did with the seam didn't work very well at all, seemingly making the seam that much more of a nuisance.

So, those were two attempts to fix the thing without changing it cosmetically. And it just became more obvious that I'd never be happy with that seam in there, and that I was feeling some inconsistencies with the seat cushion even beyond that, so he stepped right up and offered to do what I was going to ask him about doing -- just taking that piece of leather with the seam down the middle OUT of there, and then filling underneath it with plenty of nice, flat, level, consistent padding.

Cost-wise, some alternatives go like this:

The best aftermarket seat cushion I've found has been this thing from Gel-Tec:

http://geltecproducts.com/detail.aspx?ID=5

This doesn't show the black cover that goes over the actual gel stuff. But, that's roughly $100 when you add shipping to the cost of the thing.

I considered "rebuilding the seat" with OEM stuff from the previous-generation Camy, which has a "side to side" seam like seats usually have. There's a "padding piece" that goes over the metal seat frame -- about $175. Then, there's the leather seat cover, which CANNOT be purchased without the built-in seat heater, which was about $1,150. Yikes.

Aftermarket seat covers can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,000, though you usually have to buy both the "cushion" cover and the "back" cover as a set. And that may well be a price for "both front seats," at that. Hard to "just get the driver seat cushion cover."

So, the fact that my upholstery guy could just unsew the offending seamed part, and substitue a smooth, non-seamed part that matched so well, was just wonderful from a number of different perspectives, especially "price." The price also included two pieces of half-inch padding, plus he added some padding to the bolsters in an effort to maintain the balance between the bolsters and the rest of the seat. So, that was quite a bit of work and materials for $250.

Originally Posted by Old Dood

After all that I would like to get the heated element to go up my back a bit more.

My Buick heats not only the seat but my lower back as well. Feels good...

Wish the Camry did too...

Well, the "cushion" seat heater covers almost the entire seat cushion -- I was worried when we pulled it back two inches, but that still left a good three-quarters of the seat heated, if not more. That has worked very well.

There is a heater element in the seat back, and I do feel it, though it's definitely not as noticeable as the heat in the seat cushion. I've got printouts of the dealer parts catalog "exploded" view for both the driver seat and the passenger seat, and it looks like the seat back heater goes from the bottom of the seat back, up to a bit above the seat bolsters -- to a point a bit above the bottom of the "V" seam that comes down from the top of the seat. So, there's an element there, and it's a pretty good-sized one at that.

I know the dealer can adjust a temperature setting at which I guess the system will cycle on and off around, so that it doesn't go over that setting. I don't know that they could adjust the cushion and the back elements separately, but you might talk to your service manager about what they could do. It's definitely got an element to heat your back -- that much is for sure!

[thoots]

Originally Posted by Camread

the reason for the seams is to prevent sagging. they should reinforce the drivers seat on every vehicles so it wears the same rate as the pass. seat

Well, I'm not so sure about that, at least with the Camry seat. For the most part, the metal frame is doing most of the work. The "padding piece" that goes around the metal frame is very minimal -- it looks like quarter-inch padding. Here's a look at the backside of the "center seamed" piece we took out:



That's the seam front and center, that you're sitting on.

As you can see, this is "lined" with about another quarter-inch of padding, though it's very "soft" padding -- not very "stiff" at all. So, there's just not a whole lot of "padding" in the original seat configuration -- most of the support is coming from the design of the metal frame underneath the padding.

So, I'd say that there's virtually nothing "structural" involved with the seams in the seat, and there's very little to do with "padding" that might sag. I'd expect that we won't find much "sagging" in the Camry driver seat compared to the passenger seat.

All I can tell you is that this seam is a pretty big, nasty monster that I'm glad I'm not sitting on anymore!

[thoots]

Originally Posted by sigmund

It looks like they did a nice job. Very clean looking. It seems like alot of car seats these days have the seam down the middle. My wife's Mazda CX-7 seats have a seam down the middle also. I have not been for any extended rides in my Camry yet. I hope that seam dosen't turn out to be a problem for me also.

Yep, I'm very happy with my upholstery guy's handiwork! And I was really blown away by how he had leather in his truck that matched so well.

Indeed, "seam down the middle" seems to be pretty widespread these days, but I just think it's absolute nonsense. Think about every other seat you've ever sat in -- in a car or otherwise -- that has had a seam running somewhere right under your rear end! Not very many, I'd expect!

At any rate, between the seam and the seat heater wiring harness bumps, it sure bugged my apparently overly-sensitive rear end. I expect I'll be far happier with a nice, even, supportive bunch of cushioning, instead!

[thoots]

Originally Posted by atirevold

I don't even notice the seam on mine.

He did do a good job on it though. Glad you and your rear are happier now

Thanks!

It took me a few months before I started becoming aware that something was bugging me -- I sure didn't notice anything odd when I first got the car. But it just increasingly bothered me as the months went by.

I certainly see how there aren't whole bunches of other folks bitching about bumpy leather seats, so I figure I'm just "abnormal as usual." But, if this might help any similarly sensitive folks like me, I thought I'd share it with the group!

[ScottFern]

I bought that Geltec seat cushion. I must insist if you go in that direction only get the single cushion model as I got the double cushion model and it was too much and my head was too high when sitting in the drive seat. I am 6'1" btw.

Also, the double model doesn't feel very stable and the two pads shift on one another and it was irritating.

[Old Dood]

Well, the "cushion" seat heater covers almost the entire seat cushion -- I was worried when we pulled it back two inches, but that still left a good three-quarters of the seat heated, if not more. That has worked very well.

There is a heater element in the seat back, and I do feel it, though it's definitely not as noticeable as the heat in the seat cushion. I've got printouts of the dealer parts catalog "exploded" view for both the driver seat and the passenger seat, and it looks like the seat back heater goes from the bottom of the seat back, up to a bit above the seat bolsters -- to a point a bit above the bottom of the "V" seam that comes down from the top of the seat. So, there's an element there, and it's a pretty good-sized one at that.

I know the dealer can adjust a temperature setting at which I guess the system will cycle on and off around, so that it doesn't go over that setting. I don't know that they could adjust the cushion and the back elements separately, but you might talk to your service manager about what they could do. It's definitely got an element to heat your back -- that much is for sure!__________________

Thank you very much for that. Yes I noticed the heat in the seats oscillates somewhat. It gets pretty warm then cools off. Only one setting too. *sigh* I compare it to my Park Avenue's two setting seats of course. The Camry when it is at it's hottest is no more hot then the Buick is on low. Also the lumbar in the Buick is better in my opinion. It pushes a "ball" in my back and then that will push the heat in my back. ( I believe it has a air filled bladder) I really enjoy this. The Camry mainly heats my butt and the lumbar "pinches" (It seems to have two bars that close) more then pushes into my back. (that make sense?)

I will ask my Service Manger if he can adjust the seat's heat. That would be cool! errr..HOT I would love to put a varitable control in it like the Avalon. Doubt that is possible with out some modding. And MONEY!

I am fussy about my seat too. The seam doesn't bother me(I can understand how it bothers you though)...the lumbar and the heat does...

[thoots]

Originally Posted by ScottFern

I bought that Geltec seat cushion. I must insist if you go in that direction only get the single cushion model as I got the double cushion model and it was too much and my head was too high when sitting in the drive seat. I am 6'1" btw.

Also, the double model doesn't feel very stable and the two pads shift on one another and it was irritating.

Definitely agreed. The single cushion borders on putting you "too high" in the seat to begin with. The double cushion would be just waaay too high.

I'll also say this much -- I certainly tried a whole bunch of seat cushions during this ordeal, and the Gel-Tech cushion was by far the best in terms of cushioning and overall liveability. But, in the end, letting a competent upholstery shop work on the seat itself wasn't really "any more money" than messing around with a bunch of aftermarket seat cushions. In the end, I've been impressed with what my upholstery guy has been able to do, and how well he has done each job.

Frankly, my first impression from a few in-town trips is that I think we've got a bit too much padding in the seat now -- not so much "under the butt," but more at the front of the cushion, under the legs. Though, I've got a whole bunch of seat adjusting to do to see how things feel with different settings -- I've got to play with it a lot more before I'll understand if I should take it back to him for some seat padding adjustments. However, with that seam out of the way, opening the seat up to adjust the padding is even easier -- I expect that he would do any additional adjusting for between $50 and $100. I could see, for instance, taking out one of the half-inch pieces at the front end of the seat, and maybe replacing the top half-inch of padding at the back of the seat (under the butt) with some softer, less firm padding. Ultimately, we've now got the "infrastructure" in place, and I have no problem with going back a time or two to truly configure the padding so that it "custom fits" my every need and desire. That should be "a piece of cake," and very quick and easy to do. It's more a matter of spending some time in the seat after each change, to get a good grip on what the padding is actually doing, especially given how much adjustability the seat provides to begin with. Once I really understand "how it fits," and if it's "not quite right," then I'll just go in and have him make some changes -- "trial and error" until we get is as close to "perfect" as we can make it!

In the end, that still won't cost a whole pile of money, and I sure think it's better than dealing with "loose cushions" like the Gel-Tech cushion. That said, Gel-Tech does sell some "raw sheets" of their stuff -- I think the three-quarter-inch-thick stuff might be PERFECT for my "new" seat rather than the ordinary padding. Truly, at this point, we can pretty much "cut to fit" and put anything in there. I'm sure thinking serious about this, if it turns out we've got a bit too much padding in there right now!

[thoots]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

I am fussy about my seat too. The seam doesn't bother me (I can understand how it bothers you though) ...the lumbar and the heat does...

Just a couple of irritable old men!

Originally Posted by Old Dood

I will ask my Service Manger if he can adjust the seat's heat. That would be cool! errr..HOT I would love to put a varitable control in it like the Avalon. Doubt that is possible with out some modding. And MONEY!

You can do anything with MONEY!

Actually, though, I'll bet we all just need "the one BEST setting for us," so if that is "higher" than you're currently getting, just 'turning it up' ought to help whole bunches.

Maybe? Good luck with it!