Fram vs. Toyota

[fredberg]

for the past 3 oil changes, i've been using Fram oil and air filters. how do they compare to the Toyota brand? i get Fram jus cuz its cheap at Wal-Mart.

but i notice that my gas mileage isnt as good as when I used the Toyota stuff when the car was new. its probably just my imagination. but i only get 200-210 miles with a half tank now. i used to get 220-230 when it was new. jus wonderin...

[touringcamry]

If you only have a choice between Fram and Toyota, go for the Toyota filters. Frams aren't reputable for being good filters - just cheap.

[Yazovets]

Just for going 10 more miles on a full tank, it isn't worth it to buy the expensive Toyota filters. My mechanic uses the Fram stuff and they work perfectly fine.

[TRD VVTi]

Fram is one of the WORST oil filters out there. That's the TRUTH. Anyone that uses them is simply uninformed.

I'm not going to do the research but this topic has been done do death on another forum I frequent. Do a Google search, there are several INDEPENDANT tests out there with the filters cut apart and pictured, construction compared, materials compared, media surface area, price, etc...

Fram loses every single comparison except one, and that's price.

I use Toyota filters for my Toyota and AC Delco or Mobil 1 filters for my Pontiac. All of them rank very high for quality.

FRAM SUCKS, PERIOD. AND THAT IS A FACT.

EDIT: Here is a link that shows Fram's cardboard, paper, plastic and glue construction.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Here is a link that summarizes or rates the filters:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html

[Yazovets]

Interesting...well I guess I'll ask my mechanic to use Toyota parts on my Camry. Back when I had my cheap Echo, I was quite liberal with what was used. But a Camry is worth at least 2 Echos...so no cheaping out anymore!

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by Yazovets

Interesting...well I guess I'll ask my mechanic to use Toyota parts on my Camry. Back when I had my cheap Echo, I was quite liberal with what was used. But a Camry is worth at least 2 Echos...so no cheaping out anymore!

I would never let a "mechanic" touch my car. Being a "mechanic" is probably why he uses cheap parts.

Real qualified "technicians" use the highest quality parts and fluids to ensure long life and performance. They are also informed about the products they use and why. Techs are professionals, mechanics are not.

[PhatRoyale]

I was at my local dealership recently picking up some parts and was talking with a Toyota parts salesperson about this very same topic, he mentions that some types of OEM Toyota Filters were actually made BY the same company who makes FRAM, just rebranded.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

[white3ch0c0late]

Originally Posted by TRD VVTi

Real qualified "technicians" use the highest quality parts and fluids to ensure long life and performance. They are also informed about the products they use and why. Techs are professionals, mechanics are not.

You're kidding, right? Probably 4 out of 5 dealership techs that I've met in the past were morons, and were more interested in squeezing more money out of you than actually working on the car. And generally, they're not very "informed" either.

And who are you to say that mechanics are not professionals? There are plenty of mechanics with the same certifications and qualifications as techs.

[RningOnFumes]

Originally Posted by PhatRoyale

I was at my local dealership recently picking up some parts and was talking with a Toyota parts salesperson about this very same topic, he mentions that some types of OEM Toyota Filters were actually made BY the same company who makes FRAM, just rebranded.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Here is a list of who makes what for who:

filters
http://www.toyotatuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=830

oils
http://www.toyotatuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=832


another good resource for oil discussions is www.bobistheoilguy.com -- search their forums

[touringcamry]

I'm guessing calling the garbage man or the guy who drives the tanker truck around to empty porta-potties a sanitation engineer makes him smarter too right.

The one and only time I've ever used a Fram filter was the time I pulled floating paper bits out of my oil in the drain pan. I only used that filter for about 3100 miles over the course of about 5 months.

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by white3ch0c0late

You're kidding, right? Probably 4 out of 5 dealership techs that I've met in the past were morons, and were more interested in squeezing more money out of you than actually working on the car. And generally, they're not very "informed" either.

And who are you to say that mechanics are not professionals? There are plenty of mechanics with the same certifications and qualifications as techs.

Most of dealerships service personal aren't in fact technicians. Same with aftermarket repair shops.

Certifications don't really mean jack. I've seen plenty of ASE "Master" technicians that completely suck.

It's the same with any industry. There are crappy accountants, lawyers, singers, law enforcement, etc...

Ethics, training, experience, devotion and such are where it's at. That's why people actually have to search for a good tecnician.

You can scrutinize anybody's comments, look at what I was generally saying. I don't remember talking about some exact person that you've met so I won't be able to comment with any real knowledge about them.

[thoots]

Yes, Fram is just plain cheap junk, and should be avoided.

I have taken my cars to a local independent shop for nearly 30 years now, and for most of those years -- at least the last decade and more -- I have brought my own Mobil 1 synthetic oil, and genuine Toyota oil and air filters. Perhaps given my long-term patronage, this shop allows me to "stand around" and talk with the technician while he does the work, so I always know what he does, and we also talk about any issues we see, cars in general, and so on.

For most of that decade, they had one technician who did this work -- indeed, I had one technician change the oil on my cars for almost a decade. "The new guy" is working out well, and I've always been more than satisfied with the work this shop has done for me over all this time, whether it be simple oil changes or other, more intensive work.

So, I sure don't trust the dealer, who will just take my car, hide it away from me, and allow "whatever" to happen to it. And, I won't use anything but genuine Toyota filters, and Mobil 1 oil, for that matter. I'm no "do-it-yourselfer," but this sure has worked well for me!

[summerwind]

I usually stick with factory oil filters during the warranty period.

It is not a requirement but makes the book keeping easier showing my receipts from the Toyota parts counter.

The first ones for my 06 RAV4 were made by Denso in Japan. The latest ones for both my RAV4 and 07 Camry V6 were made for Toyota in Thailand.

We live in a global economy so different batches of filters are made in different locations.

Toyota pitches their filters as:

Oil Filters

Genuine Toyota Oil Filters are designed and engineered specifically for Toyota vehicles. In many cases, non-genuine manufacturers design one oil filter for use on a variety of makes and models. The result can be a poor fit and compromised performance.
In addition to proper fit, there are some specific features that set Genuine Toyota Oil Filters apart from the competition.

• Pressure Release Valve: Opens only when the filter is clogged, allowing oil to flow to the engine. The valve on some non-genuine oil filters opens at lower pressures, allowing unfiltered oil to flow to the engine unnecessarily even when the filter isn't clogged.
• Filter Element: Meets all Toyota specifications for oil flow. By comparison, a lesser quality element may clog over time, which could lead to engine seizure or other potential problems. Some non-genuine oil filters do not meet Toyota's stringent specs for this.
• Anti-Drainback Valve: Prevents oil from draining out of the engine and into the oil pan. This helps protect the engine from increased wear during cold-starts.

Only the Filter Element statement applies to the 07 V6 engine as it uses a cartridge filter that is made of only the Filter element (no end caps, release valve, drainback valve)

I haven't seen any class action lawsuits due to non-factory filters being used that destroyed engines but the subject of oil and filters is a religous one and you will always find someone trying to convert you to their opinions.

[touringcamry]

There is no requirement that you must use a certain filter to maintain your warranty. If Toyota insists that you can only maintain the warranty by doing service at the dealer or using Toyota oil and/or filters, insist that they provide you the service or items free as mandated by Magnusson-Moss Act.

[fredberg]

ok, so i hear FRAM is crap. i just changed my oil a week ago, so i cant do anything about the new fram oil filter until next oil change. but i do have a spare Toyota air filter around. shuld i take out the current fram air filter and pop in the toyota one?