Arbitration advice?

[robob2]

I have been unable to get my transmission completly repaired, yet my service department either cannot duplicte the problem or considers it to not be a problem.

In any case, the service department has suggested that I go to arbitration with Toyota over this and I'm looking for any advice from others that have experience with the arbitration process.

Does anyone have an experience the care to share? Do you have to go to arbitration or can you go right into a lemon law claim?

Looking for feedback.

Thanks,

Bob

[patgood01]

I have been through arbitration before and it wasn't that bad. I think it varies state by state a little. When I went through it a third party came out to basically be the judge advocate.He/she will want to see the vehicle in question and after he/she gets all of the info from both parties and observations that he/she made will give everyone their judgement which at least here is binding(North Carolina). At the time I went through it there was not a lemon law here,but there is now and I myself am getting close to that possibility. I would actually seek out a lawer in your area that handles lemon laws and get his/her advice first and then determine which way to go. You can also call the arbitration board. I think it is in one of the booklets you got with your car and ask how the process goes also before making a decision. I hope everything works out well for you. Iknow it really sucks.Been there,done that.Keep us up to date and if I can think of any other way to help, I will. And you're welcome, Patrick

[toyomoho]

What is the problem with the transmission?

Do a TN search on arbitration. Many owners who took this route in California were disappointed with the outcome. Do a web search on Toyota arbitration (and also on your state) and get the details of how it works.

[mrshyvley]

I've never done arbitration before.
I know if I was doing it, I would have proof of any assertions I make.
So I would go armed with video and sound of my transaxle not working correctly, so that it doesn't degenerate into a your word against their's situation.

[Midnight2]

I was going to go through arbitration with my car, but when I realized that Toyota did not have a fix for the problem - I sued. I did not sue under Louisiana's Lemon Law, but under Louisiana's Rehibition Law. I am demanding all of my money back plus any and all fees associated with this process.

[robob2]

Thanks to all for their input on this.

I just spoke with a lawyer on this and in my state (Wisconsin) there is not a need to go to arbitration first and the lawyer recommended sending a lemon law notice.

I have had all the updates done to my car, but still have flares. The flares now show more when the car is warm and not after cold soak. The flare is mainly between 2nd and 3rd, but also shows betweem 3rd and 4th. I have videos of both showing a 5 - 6 hundred RPM surge. It's not as bad as the initial flare problem, but still not right for a brand new car.

Midnight2 - is your case resolved yet?

mrshyvley - is your tranny still working correctly after the re-flash?

Thanks again,

Bob

[mrshyvley]

Originally Posted by robob2

Thanks to all for their input on this.

I just spoke with a lawyer on this and in my state (Wisconsin) there is not a need to go to arbitration first and the lawyer recommended sending a lemon law notice.

I have had all the updates done to my car, but still have flares. The flares now show more when the car is warm and not after cold soak. The flare is mainly between 2nd and 3rd, but also shows betweem 3rd and 4th. I have videos of both showing a 5 - 6 hundred RPM surge. It's not as bad as the initial flare problem, but still not right for a brand new car.

Midnight2 - is your case resolved yet?

mrshyvley - is your tranny still working correctly after the re-flash?

Thanks again,

Bob

It's funny you should ask.
Yes, my tranny is working OK again.
I was going to post on this, but hadn't gotten around to it yet.

I had the reflash, my flare went away.

I then yesterday installed a Borla high performance exhaust, which is a Toyota option in the Southeast. (I had it shipped to me here in Indiana from the Savannah, GA dealer I bought my Camry from)

When I first went out and drove my car, it flared 3-4th like before all of a sudden!
And it continued to for awhile.

Now it's back to where it isn't doing it anymore. ( I just got back from a drive)

This got me to wondering...?
Could the sudden reduction in exhaust back pressure from this Borla exhaust have temporarily upset the ECU until it adapted?
This got me to thinking more...

It's my understanding that Toyota has a type of muffler in the V6 Camrys that has a flap inside that opens when a certain volume of exhaust gas is going through in order to reduce back pressure for times when power is needed.
This way it will run quieter but not sacrifice power theoretically would be my guess.

Could these internal flaps in our mufflers, which at a certain point will open and change the back pressure, have some bearing on these flares?
Since they aren't controlled by the ECU, there could be a enough of a randomness factor to their operation to be a factor?

I have NO proof that there's anything to this much beyond a grasping at straws hypothesis.

But I don't think it's a coincidence that the sudden change in exhaust back pressure that my new Borla exhaust introduced isn't a factor in why it suddenly flared again for a short time.

[Midnight2]

Originally Posted by robob2

Thanks to all for their input on this.

I just spoke with a lawyer on this and in my state (Wisconsin) there is not a need to go to arbitration first and the lawyer recommended sending a lemon law notice.

I have had all the updates done to my car, but still have flares. The flares now show more when the car is warm and not after cold soak. The flare is mainly between 2nd and 3rd, but also shows betweem 3rd and 4th. I have videos of both showing a 5 - 6 hundred RPM surge. It's not as bad as the initial flare problem, but still not right for a brand new car.

Midnight2 - is your case resolved yet?

mrshyvley - is your tranny still working correctly after the re-flash?

Thanks again,

Bob

No, my case is in "discovery". Instead of giving me my $$ back, the attorneys (mine and theirs) are billing Toyota for all they can... It's senseless to me to spend this much money on a car, but who am I?

[robob2]

Originally Posted by mrshyvley

It's funny you should ask.
Yes, my tranny is working OK again.
I was going to post on this, but hadn't gotten around to it yet.

I had the reflash, my flare went away.

I then yesterday installed a Borla high performance exhaust, which is a Toyota option in the Southeast. (I had it shipped to me here in Indiana from the Savannah, GA dealer I bought my Camry from)

When I first went out and drove my car, it flared 3-4th like before all of a sudden!
And it continued to for awhile.

Now it's back to where it isn't doing it anymore. ( I just got back from a drive)

This got me to wondering...?
Could the sudden reduction in exhaust back pressure from this Borla exhaust have temporarily upset the ECU until it adapted?
This got me to thinking more...

It's my understanding that Toyota has a type of muffler in the V6 Camrys that has a flap inside that opens when a certain volume of exhaust gas is going through in order to reduce back pressure for times when power is needed.
This way it will run quieter but not sacrifice power theoretically would be my guess.

Could these internal flaps in our mufflers, which at a certain point will open and change the back pressure, have some bearing on these flares?
Since they aren't controlled by the ECU, there could be a enough of a randomness factor to their operation to be a factor?

I have NO proof that there's anything to this much beyond a grasping at straws hypothesis.

But I don't think it's a coincidence that the sudden change in exhaust back pressure that my new Borla exhaust introduced isn't a factor in why it suddenly flared again for a short time.

When I brought mine back after the tranny replacement and re-flash, they re-flahsed again and it was ok for a few days. Then it started up again, but not the cold flare. I think the re-flash swapped one problem for another.

What is your plan for your new flare problem. My experience this time is it's harder to have the dealer see the problem.

Bob

[robob2]

Originally Posted by Midnight2

No, my case is in "discovery". Instead of giving me my $$ back, the attorneys (mine and theirs) are billing Toyota for all they can... It's senseless to me to spend this much money on a car, but who am I?

Once discovery is done will it go to court? You have been at this for quite some time now, right>

[Midnight2]

Originally Posted by robob2

When I brought mine back after the tranny replacement and re-flash, they re-flahsed again and it was ok for a few days. Then it started up again, but not the cold flare. I think the re-flash swapped one problem for another.

What is your plan for your new flare problem. My experience this time is it's harder to have the dealer see the problem.

Bob

Yeah, I think they are instructed after one replacement to not see the problem is still there.

[Midnight2]

Originally Posted by robob2

Once discovery is done will it go to court? You have been at this for quite some time now, right>

I filed in January. Once "they" finish billing Toyota, we will settle. I know they don't want to go to court with all of the documentation that I have.

[lammydi]

Originally Posted by Midnight2

I filed in January. Once "they" finish billing Toyota, we will settle. I know they don't want to go to court with all of the documentation that I have.

Midnight2,
I have a silly question here...in the mean time as you wait to go to court, do you drive your car or do the lawyer advice you not to drive it anymore? I am just courious....

[mrshyvley]

Originally Posted by robob2

When I brought mine back after the tranny replacement and re-flash, they re-flahsed again and it was ok for a few days. Then it started up again, but not the cold flare. I think the re-flash swapped one problem for another.

What is your plan for your new flare problem. My experience this time is it's harder to have the dealer see the problem.

Bob

I don't have a new flare problem yet.
As I said, it just did it for a short time after I put my new exhaust system on, then stopped.
My dealer has been good.
They told me to bring it back if I had any more trouble and they'd replace the transaxle.
They said my word was good enough, and they wouldn't need video or require that they had to be able to reproduce it.

My fingers are still crossed.

[robob2]

Originally Posted by mrshyvley

I don't have a new flare problem yet.
As I said, it just did it for a short time after I put my new exhaust system on, then stopped.
My dealer has been good.
They told me to bring it back if I had any more trouble and they'd replace the transaxle.
They said my word was good enough, and they wouldn't need video or require that they had to be able to reproduce it.

My fingers are still crossed.

I hope you don't need to take it back for the tranny replacement. In my case, the car had the updated tranny to begin with. They replaced that updated one with another updated one and did the re-flash all at the same time. Since I still have a problem, they don't want to put another transmission in as that route has already been tried. I wonder if it's more cost effective for them to just take the car back through arbitration or lemon law.